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3 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2010 - 1:13PM
#51
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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PHB3 p223
Not Cumulative: Resistances against the same damage type are not cumulative. Only the highest resistance applies. For exapmle, if you have resist 5 cold and then gain resist 10 cold, you have resist 10 cold, not resist 16 cold. Similarly, if you have resist 5 cold and then gain resist 2 to all damage, you still have resist 5 cold, not resist 7 cold.
Interesting....
If All isn't Cold (Or Poison) why wouldn't they stack then, since they wouldn't be Resistance of the same type of damage ? But they don't as if there's Cold in All, and Poison and Fire etc.....That would explain why the Resist 2 All and Resist 5 Cold don't stack. Because All would be equaling the same as all type of damage....?
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2010 - 1:18PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2003
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PHB3 p223
Not Cumulative: Resistances against the same damage type are not cumulative. Only the highest resistance applies. For exapmle, if you have resist 5 cold and then gain resist 10 cold, you have resist 10 cold, not resist 16 cold. Similarly, if you have resist 5 cold and then gain resist 2 to all damage, you still have resist 5 cold, not resist 7 cold.
Interesting....
If All isn't Cold (Or Poison) why wouldn't they stack then, since they wouldn't be Resistance of the same type of damage ? But they don't as if there's Cold in All, and Poison and Fire etc.....That would explain why the Resist 2 All and Resist 5 Cold don't stack. Because All would be equaling the same as all type of damage....?
Hmmm.. perhaps they should, by very strict RAW, though not, pretty clearly. by RAI.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2010 - 1:43PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2006
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A different perspective on this argument is to consider the interaction of Venom Hand Master and a swarm's resistance to damage from melee and ranged attacks. If you allow VMH to bypass resist all, then it's a reasonable extension that it should bypass resist melee/ranged as well (as long as you are doing poison damage). This of course would be rediculous when you consider the reason for that resistance, hitting a single bug in a swarm with a poison dagger would be no more effective than hitting a single bug with a regular dagger, or flaming dagger, etc... The swarm is resisting because of the attack type, not the damage type. It's similar in principle to the insubstantial quality.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 22, 2010 - 6:56AM
#54
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But cold damage does and will always affect Poison damage when the 2 types of damage are added together. So when the 2 types of Resistance are added together where is your leg to stand on. If you want to infure rules that aren't there you need a better argument rather than I feet it should work but don't have a rules source to back me up. This is a Rules Q&A not a "Houserules what I would do because I don't understand the rules Q&A"
You can see LoW is stating the rules, yet you continue to argue without giving a rules based reason. "I feel Resist All is short hand" is just that a feeling not following what the rules state or don't state. Nowhere does it say Resist All is all types of resistance because it's not it is it's own damage reduction not stackable with Elemental damage Resist but not the same as either.
Diabalos
Well, sorta. I'd note that mentioning combined resistance types is pointless -- if an attack is only Poison type and ignores Poison Resist then it doesn't matter if you have Resist Cold and Poison. You still take full damage. Which is why I question that interpretation of All which is being thrown about. If, theoretically, All is treated as every damage type in much the same way as a combined resistance would be then, yes, Venom Hand Assassin would ignore it. I am saying two things:
1) No, it is not as clear as we would like it to be.
2) I think it should be interpreted this way.
Take what you want from that.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards."
~ yesnomu
"Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless."
~ SanityFaerie
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3 years ago ::
Jun 22, 2010 - 9:40AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2010
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But cold damage does and will always affect Poison damage when the 2 types of damage are added together. So when the 2 types of Resistance are added together where is your leg to stand on. If you want to infure rules that aren't there you need a better argument rather than I feet it should work but don't have a rules source to back me up. This is a Rules Q&A not a "Houserules what I would do because I don't understand the rules Q&A"
You can see LoW is stating the rules, yet you continue to argue without giving a rules based reason. "I feel Resist All is short hand" is just that a feeling not following what the rules state or don't state. Nowhere does it say Resist All is all types of resistance because it's not it is it's own damage reduction not stackable with Elemental damage Resist but not the same as either.
Diabalos
Well, sorta. I'd note that mentioning combined resistance types is pointless -- if an attack is only Poison type and ignores Poison Resist then it doesn't matter if you have Resist Cold and Poison. You still take full damage. Which is why I question that interpretation of All which is being thrown about. If, theoretically, All is treated as every damage type in much the same way as a combined resistance would be then, yes, Venom Hand Assassin would ignore it. I am saying two things:
1) No, it is not as clear as we would like it to be.
2) I think it should be interpreted this way.
Take what you want from that.
I only looked at it in this way for this example because it doesn't have 2 or 3 or 27 resistance types. It has 1! Only 1 and that 1 is not going to change into 2 or 4 or 99999 resistance types no matter how hard you close your eyes and wish it that way. You need a way to beat Resist All. In my example useing Resist All as multiple resistances but one trait you in no way get to ignore any of the none Poison effects so you can't ignore Resist All. If it said VHM: Your Poison damage can not be reduced in any way. Then you got it but that is a long way of picking a couple of effects you can get round.
You just can't have it both ways.
Diabalos.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 22, 2010 - 10:08AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2005
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People keep saying that the rules don't say resist all says it includes resist cold, fire, etc, etc. I agree with this. But what the rules DO say is that resistance works against a specific damage TYPE. ALL is not a damage type. Damage types are listed ( and to my knowledge not been changed ) in the reading a power section of the PHB.
This is the main reason I think they meant Resist All to actually be each of the Resist types. They simply didn't want to type out " Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Resist Pyschic, Resist Thunder, Resist Lightning, Resist Radiant, Resist Necrotic, Resist Acid " with the assigned value.
Here's the definition of resist in the Monster Manual 2, so you can see where I am coming from.
" Resist: A creature that has resistance takes less damage from a specific damage type. For example, a creature that has resist 10 fire takes 10 less damage whenever it takes fire damage.
Resistance doesn't reduce damage unless the target has resistance to each type of damage from the attack, and then only the weakest of the resistances applies. For example, a creature that has resist 10 lightning and resist 5 thunder that takes 15 lightning and thunder damage takes 10 damage because the resistance value to the combined damage types is limited by the lesser of the two resistances. "
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3 years ago ::
Jun 22, 2010 - 2:25PM
#57
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People keep saying that the rules don't say resist all says it includes resist cold, fire, etc, etc. I agree with this. But what the rules DO say is that resistance works against a specific damage TYPE. ALL is not a damage type. Damage types are listed ( and to my knowledge not been changed ) in the reading a power section of the PHB.
Take a look at the Stone Band and get back to me, will you?
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3 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2010 - 12:12PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2007
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Let's use basic logic: One of the easiest ways to prove an argument is invalid is to reduce it to a simple form that then shows an absurdity. This is called reductio ad absurdum. In this case, let's start with the definition/assumption that "'reduce X all' is really 'reduce X cold' and 'reduce X fire' and, etc". Now, let's create a power plus weapon plus feat collection of damage. Our new power (admittedly silly), when done, does 5 cold dmg, 10 fire, 15 lightning, 20 feat, and 25 item dmg. Against an unprotected opponent, this would do 75 points. (NOTE: I picked the numbers only for clarity, not realism.) The creature being attacked has resist 5 all. Applying the assumption above, i.e. that all is a collection of all named types, then it reduces the 5 cold to zero. It also reduces the 10 fire damage to 5, the lightning to 10, the feat to 15, and the item dmg to 20, for a total of 50 points. This conclusion is required from the definition I gave above. This conclusion is also absurd. Therefore, by reductio ad absurdum, the definition/assumption I gave above is falsified. Thus, all cannot simply be a collection of damage types. Barring the addition of another possibility (after all, it wouldn't do to have a logician violate the excluded middle fallacy  ), this must mean that "all" should be treated as simply applying to all damage, regardless of type.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2010 - 12:26PM
#59
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Hmm. Is this absurd? You're being damaged by 5 different damage sources simultaneously.
5 cold damage, 10 fire damage, 15 lightning, 20 necrotic (no idea what feat damage is) and 25 untyped damage.
75 damage to the unprotected.
You have Resist 5 cold and Resist 5 fire and Resist 5 lightning and Resist 5 necrotic for whatever reason.
If those are separate damage sources (no idea how that might happen), you'd take 0 cold, 5 fire, 10 lightning, 15 necrotic and 25 item for 55 damage, no?
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2010 - 12:30PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
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This conclusion is required from the definition I gave above. This conclusion is also absurd. Therefore, by reductio ad absurdum, the definition/assumption I gave above is falsified. Thus, all cannot simply be a collection of damage types.
Your conclusion isn't actually absurd. You might think it is wrong, of course, but that would be begging the question. To really make the argument work, you'd need a clear contradiction with something that we know without dispute.
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