I second the moral outrage at the idea that getting a one-month subscription to get a one-shot download of the Character Builder and then cancelling it is a viable solution. All of you people who are suggesting that, I ask you to consider this nightmare scenario, which might seem far-fetched but will doubtless come to pass if the moneygrubbing tyranny of Wizards of the Coast is not challenged now.
Imagine that after you paid ~$40 for the Player's Handbook, it never received any new content or rules updates. To get new contents and new rules, they made you buy whole new books as they came out, for the same price you paid for the original.
That is, in fact, the world prior to online distribution. And still, in fact, the norm.
D&D 3.5E was essentially a massive update to fix serious problems in 3E. Wizards did NOT mail a free 3.5E replacement to everyone who had ever bought a 3E book.
White Wolf turned over the complete World of Darkness just a few years ago, invalidating all the old books. There were NO free updates. The new books actually cost slightly more, new, than the old ones did when they were new.
DDI is cheap, even if you keep your subscription active the entire year. It costs less than buying just the Power books, so even if you prefer to buy the PHBs and DMGs for the rules you're still saving money. Do a once-a-year or every-six-months update, and it's even cheaper.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Hee hee! AlexandraErin, I loved what you said about wanting Wizard's to release a d20 with just the 20 because you seldom need to use the 1-19 sides! That cracked me up for quite some time!
Well, after 50+ pages, its clear that neither side will convince the other...both have very good points from their point of view and both do not see where the other side is coming from.
The only thing I saw that bugged me was this: thaX, you have been very clear regarding your dislike of the current setup, and yet you have chosen not to take the one action that will actually send a clear message to Wizards, and, if done by enough people, will actually get them to change their business plan. I'm going to say this in all caps, not because I am mad (because I'm not), but just to make sure people see it. If you are unhappy with how DDI is run...CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION! It just seems silly to me...you don't need it to play the game. Sure, it makes things much easier and convienent, which is why they are charging money and why people pay it. But once again, it is a bonus...you can play the game just fine without it.
Hee hee! AlexandraErin, I loved what you said about wanting Wizard's to release a d20 with just the 20 because you seldom need to use the 1-19 sides! That cracked me up for quite some time!
Well, after 50+ pages, its clear that neither side will convince the other...both have very good points from their point of view and both do not see where the other side is coming from.
The only thing I saw that bugged me was this: thaX, you have been very clear regarding your dislike of the current setup, and yet you have chosen not to take the one action that will actually send a clear message to Wizards, and, if done by enough people, will actually get them to change their business plan. I'm going to say this in all caps, not because I am mad (because I'm not), but just to make sure people see it. If you are unhappy with how DDI is run...CANCEL YOUR SUBSCRIPTION! It just seems silly to me...you don't need it to play the game. Sure, it makes things much easier and convienent, which is why they are charging money and why people pay it. But once again, it is a bonus...you can play the game just fine without it.
The whole argument is rather pointless.
Wanting options isn't wrong. But what they have now, it's just not practical for WoTC to break it up. If and when they do, it will most likely be a Player option, DM option.
But the thing is, neither package will likely exclude any material. To do so adds a whole level of control and programming and maintance that frankly isn't need. Why? Because it's dollars a month.
The tools already give you the ability to decide which material gets used, and allows you to save those settings, provided you explore the tools and learn how to use them.
As for letting 3 party programs. Doing so would mean allowing another company to use their materials, without WoTC being able to put control measures in place on what happens with their materials.
Gaming is a niche market, and it makes money, it has a very small audience. The last thing a company wants is some third party giving out their material in a way that reduces their sales.
As it stands now, the cheapest a year of DDi costs 10, the max is 71. Anyone paying more then $71 a year, has made a choice for themselves, that they need to live with. Meaning if you are paying by the month, and renew each month, that's your choice.
DDi would be as bad if there were other options and product that could suffice for my needs. Right now, anything I would pick up to use may be stricken from the market at a moments notice, for no real reason.
The mags are a shadow of what they were, and most of the product are nich or will be used in future products. There is already some concern (or dread, depending on how one looks at it) that the "exclusive" Assassin will be in the Player's Option Shadow power source book. Instead of being a magazine that supports the hobby, it is now test market for future products and adverts for the game. It also is a lame duck support project for the settings (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun for now, with some reference to Planescape and other half settings from 2nd edition) that is supposed to replace actual support in the stores.
I lament for the lost character generator that would (and might still) be better suited for the job than the current "builder." That Wizards would take away all support from CMP after what CMP did to get E-Tools working right is a slap in the face.
But, DDi is here now, less than what was advertised at launch, slow to have new developments, and refusing help from any who would propose it. Guess we use pen and paper or give in and use the service.
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
DDi would be as bad if there were other options and product that could suffice for my needs. Right now, anything I would pick up to use may be stricken from the market at a moments notice, for no real reason.
The mags are a shadow of what they were, and most of the product are nich or will be used in future products. There is already some concern (or dread, depending on how one looks at it) that the "exclusive" Assassin will be in the Player's Option Shadow power source book. Instead of being a magazine that supports the hobby, it is now test market for future products and adverts for the game. It also is a lame duck support project for the settings (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun for now, with some reference to Planescape and other half settings from 2nd edition) that is supposed to replace actual support in the stores.
I lament for the lost character generator that would (and might still) be better suited for the job than the current "builder." That Wizards would take away all support from CMP after what CMP did to get E-Tools working right is a slap in the face.
But, DDi is here now, less than what was advertised at launch, slow to have new developments, and refusing help from any who would propose it. Guess we use pen and paper or give in and use the service.
thaX, your points make little sense to me. They seemed to be based simply in wanting to complain about everything.
It isn't that it doesn't suit my desires, it is that Wizards veered away from a sound, stable market to feed a test market of subscription usage of a magazine that had been published in newstand form before. My assursion is that most that have the DDi account have it for the tools, not the advertisment that is still called issues of a now dead magazine.
And yet you still think that out of a $10/mo subscription, that the CB only contains about $3-$4 of the value. I can guarantee you that if it were to be split up, WOTC would offer the standalone CB at around $8/mo and still make money. Why? It's simple. In the DDi subscription, the CB is the vast majority of the value (by your own estimation). Price is established by the perceived value they can get, not on what it costs them to produce. Even if they could make money only charging $3/mo, why would they when they can charge 7-8? You are, and have been for this entire exercise, mistakenly thought price should be set based on cost rather than value.
Unless your PHB is way fancier than mine, then the satire should be obvious. From the rest of your response, though, I think the whole point was lost on you.
Hence my first sentence. It was difficult to tell whether you were being serious or sarcastic. Now I know.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Wanting options isn't wrong. But what they have now, it's just not practical for WoTC to break it up. If and when they do, it will most likely be a Player option, DM option.
Most of us have agreed to this as well, Dane. More options are not bad, but the current options are not bad, either.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept. Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new. Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept. Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
DDi would be as bad if there were other options and product that could suffice for my needs. Right now, anything I would pick up to use may be stricken from the market at a moments notice, for no real reason.
The mags are a shadow of what they were, and most of the product are nich or will be used in future products. There is already some concern (or dread, depending on how one looks at it) that the "exclusive" Assassin will be in the Player's Option Shadow power source book. Instead of being a magazine that supports the hobby, it is now test market for future products and adverts for the game. It also is a lame duck support project for the settings (Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun for now, with some reference to Planescape and other half settings from 2nd edition) that is supposed to replace actual support in the stores.
I lament for the lost character generator that would (and might still) be better suited for the job than the current "builder." That Wizards would take away all support from CMP after what CMP did to get E-Tools working right is a slap in the face.
But, DDi is here now, less than what was advertised at launch, slow to have new developments, and refusing help from any who would propose it. Guess we use pen and paper or give in and use the service.
I did not read either mag prior to 4th edition. Can you please explain what the difference is that makes the current versions "shadows of what they were"? Also, you say, "There is already some concern (or dread, depending on how one looks at it) that the 'exclusive' Assassin will be in the Player's Option Shadow power source book." Who is expressing this concern besides you? And how would it be a bad thing? Everyone will already get access to the Assassin once they release the compiled Dragon Mag book. It sounds like you are saying you find the content of Dragon Mag worthless, but it fills you with dread to think that they will give everyone access to what they initially labeled as exclusive content. I would argue that a product that functions as a "test market for future products" is indeed something "that supports the hobby". It is giving players access to more options as well as giving them far more input over future design than ever before.
What features would you like to see added to the Character Builder? My players all find it to be a wonderful resource, making character generation (and even more so, the level up process) very easy and streamlined.
Your final point is one that I do find valid. It annoyed me that in the beginning Wizards gave us this enticing sneak peak of a Virtual Tabletop, and then brushed it under the rug. It isn't so much the fact that they took it off the table that bothered me as much as the way it was done. There was no announcement saying that it was unfortunately not going to be offered any time soon...they just took all info off the site.
Your final sentence also nicely sums up what I have been saying this whole time: "Guess we use pen and paper or give in and use the service." Yup...those are your choices. I am sorry that you are unhappy with what you get for $6 a month, and even more sorry that despite being very unhappy you are still paying. If I had the budget for it, I would pay in a heartbeat, as I think $6 a month is far less than the worth of the Character Builder, Monster Builder, Dragon Mag, Dungeon Mag, and Compendium.
My misgivings on the Assassin is the fact that the class exists at all. It has not had a very good history in the D&D brand, the last incarnation being a PrC (Mainly NPC) that had a very broken power.
The mags before was done for the hobbiest, it was a lot of material that was put out there for fun rather than having "balanced" material that is merely an extension of the books rather than new material. "WoW your players" is a good example, as it gave 100 results for a Wand of Wonder instead of the normal 10. You will not see such marvels in the DDi.
What do I want on the Character Builder... How about house rules, a way to change the prices/value of the magical items that are more in line to normal than the RAW. A way to charge the regular mark ups for the things, and a way to put in custom classes and powers. It. Won't. Happen. Not in the current set up.
My main concern is the lack of choice in the matter, not the actual product.
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
