I like the build and think it has some interesting potential, i also liked the Ninja teamleader and wanted to try and combine a couple of ideas so here is..
ITEMS Headband of Intellect (heroic tier), Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Ring of Protection (paragon tier), Bracers of Archery (epic tier), Cloak of Distortion +5, Siberys Shard of the Mage (epic tier), Gloves of the Healer (epic tier), Diamond Cincture (paragon tier), Ring of Fey Travel (epic tier), Feytouched Starleather Armor +6, Radiant Shortbow +6 ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
key points in the build
It switches to radiant shortbow, by using moonbow dedicate, which can be swapped out one you get spellcommander if you want...
everytime you HIT with a radiant, you gain con mod temp HP
every time you CRIT with a radiant, you create a burst 1 zone, that does 3d6 radiant damage to any foe, that end their turn in the zone (save ends)
Added Bravura Presence, allowing allies and extra basic attack or move if they take the Bravura gamble
changed the epic destiny, to Dispossesed Champion, now when you shift, every one else in your party shifts an equal amount, which you can do as a minor action
The Range of all artificer and Spell Commander ranged powers are now range+10!
now I havn't looked at the powers yet, but most of them should be good... May like to look at powers that add shift effects.
@Auspex7: I think you're strongly overvaluing PC Move actions, perhaps in home games maps are drawn larger, or when dealing with poorly made characters (Gnome Melee Striker in Heavy Armor) that extra distance is important. Decently optimized characters, especially by mid Paragon, really don't consider movement a disadvantage. Especially when you consider Spell Commander favors casters, the majority of which aren't going to care one lick about moving T1 except to spread out.
And I guess I misinterpreted the idea of dictating the outcome of the battle on T1, to me that means: Go first and Disable 3 opponents (1 marked, 1 controlled, 1 dead by the strikers), there are no "defensive considerations" as you put it. Blizzard blatantly favors Melee Range for DPR, but equips every class with escape buttons, which you have taken a couple of. I just think that with a sub-par race, and 8 feats that are irrelivant to the build goal, you've gone past "considerations" and strait into "focused", and with a 5 square requirement you're still well within the "Blast Zone", sure at level 30 with those defensive feats you have a better chance, but at Mid-Paragon not only don't you have the defenses, but you're also not providing the punch to kill anything T1. The arguments against Eladrin and the Tac-Lord feats just seem to come down to "I want to be a really good leader at level 30."
Don't get me wrong, I love the Spell Commander and the massive number of basic attacks granted, but without powers like Adaptive Stratagem, or Res/Tac Presence and a couple +Hit abilities, you really aren't Dictating anything T1, you're just removing half a round from the combat.
And there's nothing that says you can't have Psychic Lock from your melee attacks.
Numbering things to keep myself organized. I tend to get off track quickly, so I need all the help I can get.
1. I think you dramatically undervalue the impact of putting Team Hero 4 move actions ahead, and putting your allies into position immediately. I'm very surprised by this.
2. Supremely optimized characters consider not having to move themselves a huge advantage. Have you seen how many Novas use Minor actions? As a Pursuit Avenger nut, I would LOVE to start my first turn standing next to an enemy who has already eaten an MBA. My turn? Oath, RRoT, bring the pain. Defenders often have Speed 5, and low initiative mods. Moving them into position before their turn even starts is a pretty big deal. In the case of a Fighter, you can even get their target marked for them.
3. Spell Commander loves having a caster or two around, but that's not anywhere near the same thing as saying that they require having one around. Spell Tracer and the AP feature are awesome when the Spell Commander has an ally of any type who has a strong basic attack. In live play, I've used an Artificer/Spell Commander to smoke an enemy with the L11 AP Nova (Magic Weapon, AP, Spell Tracer) to throw the MW buff and both basics to a Fighter. That Nova is even worse when it goes to an Avenger.
Even with Spell Commander 'favoring casters'... that doesn't mean that the SC's party is going to be SC + 4 casters. A balanced party of 5 is likely to have only 1. At the very least, a party of 4+ should expect to have 2 frontliners. Further... the caster still wants RtA so he can get adjacent to the SC to take advantage of the L16 feature and Magic Weapon buffs.
4. You talk about mark 1 + control 1 + kill 1 as though that's a reasonable expectation for a single turn-- let alone for a balanced party of 5. I think you'd be surprised at how close this build comes to that with RtA + War Master's Assault at L15, and more surprised if you were able to pull off those 3 things in a single turn-- especially with a melee-oriented Eladrin.
I also want to point out that, if/when the need arises, Killswitch can:
(minor) (move) Reorient the Axis (standard) War Master's Assault --Action Point & grant basic-- (standard) Pincer Maneuver -or- Spell Tracer.
In a party of 5, that's a full party worth of movement, and 8 attacks... and it can be done by L15. Note that your allies will often get some turns off between this and Team Monster's first turns. Also note the fact that the first enemy to hit one of your allies is rewarded with an Immediate Interrupt (Shocking Feedback) for their efforts, which further increases the odds of killing something before Team Monster does any damage. Two questions here: Does this sound like it's lacking in offensive punch, or in need of +to hit or +damage to make it effective? Does it sound like this is strictly a Level 30 build?
For that matter, would you acknowledge that that is enough offensive punch (at mid-Paragon) to kill something? 8 attacks is a lot. 9 (includes Immediate Interrupt) is even more.
While it should be obvious that this build is going full-tilt by 11th or 12th (after being plenty strong through Heroic), I'll admit that the full-speed-ahead L30 version of T1 is worse.
(move) Reorient the Axis (minor) Magic Weapon (standard) War Master's Assault --Action Point & grant basic-- (standard) Insightful Assault
In a party of 5, that's a full party worth of movement, plus 11 attacks.
My challenge to you, Zathris: Build a melee-oriented Eladrin Warlord-variant (straight Warlord, hybrid, MC, whatever) whose T1 by L15 has a higher impact than what this build produces. I'm not saying that it can't be done. I understand that there are a LOT of people out there who are smarter than me. There are probably people who are far better builders than me. I just don't see how it's possible. If it is possible, I would love to see it simply for the sake of education.
My guess is that, in order to pull this off, you'll need to start out with:
(minor) Tactical Orders/similar (move) Reorient the Axis
Otherwise, Team Hero simply won't be in position to drop the hammer on T1-- unless the group is melee-Warlord + 4 ranged Heroes. That would obviously be... atypical. Of course, simply by using those powers as part of your T1, you'd be demonstrating how valuable those movement powers really are.
5. There are no defensive considerations?
If you meant that I didn't burn feats on defense prior to 16th/18th (Paragon Defenses can easily go at either level, obviously), then you're correct. If you mean that the build doesn't have any defensive features, or that defense wasn't something I considered when I put this build together, then I can list a bunch of defensive features for you.
I also have to ask... do you feel that being adjacent to enemies is just as safe as being 5 squares away from them, with allies between you and said enemies?
6. Blizzard = typo, I know.
7. +1 feat, +1 skill, +1 At-Will, +1 to all NADs... is not sub-par. I see that I should also have included a line about the build being 'well-rounded' in the 'Build Goal/Objective' line. The 8 feats you're citing may or may not directly relate to the build goal, but they contribute to making the build extremely well rounded, and very flexible. Those are important things to me.
8. re: "I really want to be a good Leader at L30"... This build is a monster by L10. Aside from the fact that it'll average over 30 DPR for the first 3 turns of an Enc, it can heal an ally for more than its bloodied value 1/Enc. It can also give allies 6 free squares of movement by Level 8.
Paragon is just ridiculous. In a L16 playtest (against an L20 Enc designed for Opt players), Killswitch contributed 11 attacks in less than 3 full rounds, without using an Action Point. K's first turn gave self + 1 ally 38 Temps each, moved the entire party into position, marked the Fighter's target, and bloodied an Elite, while also taking an estimate of about 1/4 HP off another Elite. Before Team Monster got to go, the party's Fighter used Rain of Steel + Come and Get It to ensure that 6 minions never got a turn, and marked + pulled the 2nd Elite-- and he did this without having to move himself. The Fighter wouldn't have gone so early without the +7 Init boost, and wouldn't have gotten the position he did without the 7 square Reorient the Axis.
This is hardly a Level 30 build, or one that was put together with a focus on Epic. It certainly gets more silly at Epic, but it doesn't ever have to crack into that tier in order to be optimal.
9. Even without using a Daily or Action Point on T1, the build has a big impact.
I can break this down in detail later. What I'll say on the subject for now is that instant position + 2 attacks is a virtual guarantee that at least 1 monster dies before the end of Round 1-- and that the initiative boost that KS provides makes it very likely that Team Hero has multiple turns at or near the top of the initiative order. Odds are very good that Team Hero's melee Striker is in position to drop a Nova, and has just had a free minion check + head start dropped into his target.
Cutting this post off for now. More later if determined by discussion.
I like the build and think it has some interesting potential, i also liked the Ninja teamleader and wanted to try and combine a couple of ideas so here is..
ITEMS Headband of Intellect (heroic tier), Boots of the Fencing Master (heroic tier), Ring of Protection (paragon tier), Bracers of Archery (epic tier), Cloak of Distortion +5, Siberys Shard of the Mage (epic tier), Gloves of the Healer (epic tier), Diamond Cincture (paragon tier), Ring of Fey Travel (epic tier), Feytouched Starleather Armor +6, Radiant Shortbow +6 ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
key points in the build
It switches to radiant shortbow, by using moonbow dedicate, which can be swapped out one you get spellcommander if you want...
everytime you HIT with a radiant, you gain con mod temp HP
every time you CRIT with a radiant, you create a burst 1 zone, that does 3d6 radiant damage to any foe, that end their turn in the zone (save ends)
Added Bravura Presence, allowing allies and extra basic attack or move if they take the Bravura gamble
changed the epic destiny, to Dispossesed Champion, now when you shift, every one else in your party shifts an equal amount, which you can do as a minor action
The Range of all artificer and Spell Commander ranged powers are now range+10!
now I havn't looked at the powers yet, but most of them should be good... May like to look at powers that add shift effects.
I like the Temps-on-hit. Very nice self-preservation piece. Bravura Presence can also be pretty strong, of course.
Sadly, Font of Radiance only works for Radiant melee attacks, though.
I'll look at this some more. Looks like it's probably a good frame.
Font of Radiance Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a power that has the radiant keyword, the target begins to glow brightly (save ends). The target’s space and all squares adjacent to it are illuminated by bright light. Invisible creatures become visible while they are in affected squares, and attack rolls against creatures in those squares take no penalty for concealment. Any foe that ends its turn in an affected square (including the original target) takes 3d6 radiant damage.
So all's good... and yes I do like to utalise the Temp Hitpoints when dealing with and high con character...
It doesn't have as high defences as you, not being human, or the extra at will, but it seems a workable varient.. like to see it tested in play though.
Are Shocking Feedback and Debilitating Intercession really better then Impromptu attack or Blade Burst Trap at level 17? I mean sure, there's some defensive mitigation to them, but ImpAtk should do more damage and trigger more reliably against your desired target, while BBTrap, while a bit more situational, is fairly unique as a immidiate burst attack.
Font of Radiance Benefit: When you score a critical hit with a power that has the radiant keyword, the target begins to glow brightly (save ends). The target’s space and all squares adjacent to it are illuminated by bright light. Invisible creatures become visible while they are in affected squares, and attack rolls against creatures in those squares take no penalty for concealment. Any foe that ends its turn in an affected square (including the original target) takes 3d6 radiant damage.
So all's good... and yes I do like to utalise the Temp Hitpoints when dealing with and high con character...
It doesn't have as high defences as you, not being human, or the extra at will, but it seems a workable varient.. like to see it tested in play though.
Wow. Not only are you correct, but it also appears that the feat wasn't errata'd to read is it does at present, which means I misread it since day 1.
Very nice
Absolutely looks like a workable variant. I like Sage of Ages and Bow Mastery with it, to maximize hit and crit chances.
Are Shocking Feedback and Debilitating Intercession really better then Impromptu attack or Blade Burst Trap at level 17? I mean sure, there's some defensive mitigation to them, but ImpAtk should do more damage and trigger more reliably against your desired target, while BBTrap, while a bit more situational, is fairly unique as a immidiate burst attack.
I like both of them more than Impromptu Attack. ImpA only triggers on a melee hit, and has a range of close burst 5. Unless there are two allies adjacent at the time of the trigger, both SF and DI will consistently deal more damage-- and SF is actually an Interrupt. With just 1 ally adjacent to the target at the time of the trigger, the result is only a single, unmodified MBA. In contrast, Killswitch has +3 prof, 20 starting Int, and possibly/probably Mindiron + Headband of Intellect for an additional +1 to hit by 17th. If he goes a different direction than Mindiron, it may be something like Radiant, Lightning, or Frost weapon + corresponding Dragonshard, so the damage could be even higher with the crossbow attack.
Now... Blade Burst Trap is interesting to me. Here's the conundrum:
1) BBT has a fairly limited range. Of course, that range is also one that Killswitch likely hovers around during the early turns of an Enc. Still, I like the flexibility of having a range of 'Ranged Weapon', because that allows KS to use its Immediates against Artillery or ranged Controllers.
2) BBT should deal less damage to an individual target than either SF or DI. Accuracy variation also depends on the ally who benefits from it. An Avenger or Rogue will blow away even Killswitch's considerable accuracy, but a Warden or Paladin will probably be about -2 to hit by comparisson.
Then again, BBT Dazes, and has the potential to grant a swarmed Defender 2-5 attacks!
3) BBT only gets an attack if you have an ally adjacent to the triggering enemy. This means less accessibility to the reward, even though the triggering condition is slightly easier to satisfy (since it includes KS being attacked).
In the end, the range, lack of need to have an ally adjacent to the target, and dependable accuracy (KS's will be high enough to provide insurance) won out, and I kept SF and DI.
If anyone made a variant of their own, and kept Blade Burst Trap, I absolutely would not call that a bad choice. I'd even call it a GREAT choice. I consider it a sliiiightly less reliable power, over all... but the stars will line up right in most Encounters, and when they do, BBT will probably look so good, it'll almost appear broken.
