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3 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2010 - 2:14AM
#21
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Date Joined:
May 27, 2010
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For an excellent idea of one way to do this... Check out the Imperial Order from Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series... sot.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_OrderThey are basically an order of people who completely hate and want to eradicate magic... having your characters grow up in a world run by these types would make an easy reason for magic to not exist... or only on "monsters" and NPCs (some of the members of the Order use magic, but they claim that they only use it to further the goals of the "creator" Some of the stuff about the Order might be a bit more adult that you're looking for, but it does make for a good backdrop of a culture that does not like/use magic.
"Human beings are almost unique in their ability to learn from the experiences of others, and in their apparent disinclination to do so."
-Douglas Adams
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3 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2010 - 8:14AM
#22
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Excellent find, Phaqueue. Thank you.
That does fit in to some extent, particularly with my modified Warforged implementation, as they will be able to choose a wizard class re-write in which they can expend excess arcane energy through existing or additional modifications (i.e. a light spell would be a gem that is grafted to the wargorged and arcane energy is used to light it).
It is likely that a controller will be needed, so the above class will be work well within the boundaries, and the Imperial Order will provide me with some good culture to integrate.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2010 - 5:01AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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You are probably better off cutting out magic altogether. It's one thing to say its evil, its another to have every scenario as "lets all kill the magic user". Whatever religious view your friend has, it concerns me somewhat. I`ve known D&D players who were devout christians and they never went down the route of being that hostile towards magical things.
I did once run a game, a long time ago, where casting arcane magic was considered an evil act. The reason for this was that in the past, arcane mages had blown up the universe, fracturing it after a war they had between themselves. It was a spelljammer game, so using spelljammer spaceships was the only way to navigate between the fractured chunks of reality, which floated about in a chaotic vortex.
In that world, however, divine magic was regarded as good, regardless of which god was involved, as the gods were trying their best to keep it all hanging together and had put aside their differences to that end, even if they had radically different alignments. My players ran into a squad of Drow paladins for example, which confused them no end.
To "evil-ise" even divine magic, though, doesnt sit well with me and i`m puzzled as to why your friends find even that to be a bad thing. It's one thing to pick on the local carnival showman who casts illusion spells, but would you have your players beat up a well meaning priestly healer?
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3 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2010 - 6:01AM
#24
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Thank you, Shard. But as I have pointed out before, we are far beyond the "moral dilemmas" of the situation.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 18, 2010 - 1:49PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2007
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I took your advice and started a world based on the Inside-Out method. I woke up in a room and looked around. Its the "The Inside-Out World" thread. Check it out... 
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3 years ago ::
Jun 18, 2010 - 10:53PM
#26
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How are you planning to do the race-unlocking? Younger players don't tend to be very graceful about character death (either thinking too much or too little of it) and it seems like it would be the only way for anyone to play your "unlockable" races, unless I'm misinterpreting the intent.
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3 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2010 - 2:34AM
#27
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I have not quite figured that out completely yet...
But for one, new players could join and pick up one of the unlocked races/classes.
One of the things that I thought of was to monitor the players and how they are enjoying playing their characters. If they are incredibly frustrated with them, I may give them an out by having a private chat with them to see if they would be interested in switching characters. Then I would weave it into the story, and even possibly give them an opportunity for an epic death. Sacrificing themselves for the greater good, and all that jazz.
It's one of the obstacles that I am trying to iron out, to be sure. And I am most definitely open to suggestions.
Reflavoring: the change of flavor without changing any mechanical part of the game, no matter how small, in order to fit the mechanics to an otherwise unsupported concept.
Retexturing: the change of flavor (with at most minor mechanical adaptations) in order to effortlessly create support for a concept without inventing anything new.
Houseruling: the change, either minor or major, of the mechanics in order to better reflect a certain aspect of the game, including adapting the rules to fit an otherwise unsupported concept.
Homebrewing: the complete invention of something new that fits within the system in order to reflect an unsupported concept.
Default module =/= Core mechanic.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 03, 2010 - 11:00PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2006
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Interesting idea.
Just spinning out an idea, take it or leave it. Suppose that the essence of magic is that it is a sort of "anti-reality". Not like antimatter is to matter (though perhaps there is a bit of that, what with fireballs and such), but more like an acid. Magic is a solvent of reality... it breaks it down. That is why you can use magic to change the way things are.
The problem with exposing yourself to this force is that it is fundamentally inimical to reality. You can't use it without "getting some on you", as it were. That is why it is morally corruptive: corruption (as in "decay") is its very essence. Use of magic breaks down your ability to make objective judgments about anything: it turns you into a psychopath or a lunatic, ultimately.
That's where the tropes of the "mad wizard" and "evil sorcerer" come from. People's ability to tell right from wrong, reality from fantasy and the prudent from the bizarre become impaired. It could even be akin to a very dark drug trip that you never come back from.
If you went with this idea, you could even have a tragedy where someone practices wizardry (perhaps certain rituals) over time for some understandable and altruistic reason. However, this person inevitably becomes twisted by the warping anti-reality of the magic and ultimately destroys what they were trying to preserve.
Haiku Police
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3 years ago ::
Jul 06, 2010 - 2:00AM
#29
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Instead of cutting out magic items, you might want to consider each magic item in the PHB as a possible item, and cut them out on a case by case bases.
Items that have an easily normal explanation for how they work without magic could then instead be called well made version of the base item.
For instance, Magic Longsword +1... why does that need to be magic in any event? Why can't it just be a Balanced Longsword +1 meaning that because it's balanced it's more likely to hit the enemy and does a touch more damage.
On the other hand, Flaming Longsword +1 wouldn't be aloud as there really isn't a good fantasy way to describe how you have a metal sword that does fire damage at any given time that it does damage. Sure a sword that hasn't even been cooled after the final hammer blow would act as a temporary flaming sword, but put it in a bucket of water, and poof back to being a normal long sword.
But does that mean all flaming weapons wouldn't be aloud? Not at all. Flaming Arrows would be a classic.
So as I say, each item should be considered as a potential item that can remain in the game world, with only removing items that the only reasonable way to keep them is if you explain them with magic.
Here's just a quick list of items I would keep between 1 and 5 and why I would keep them...
Magic X this is no longer a Magic X but a balanced or well made X
Dwarven Armor: this is just well made dwarven craftmanship. The improvement to healing is simply because it's lighter and easier to rest in.
Razor armor: this is now armor with spikes on it. Spiky armor hurts.
Sylvan armor: again, it's bonus can be explained because it's just well made armor.
Vicious weapons: might sound like it's magical, but there are real life weapons that if you twist them just so after you stab someone they cause all sorts of extra damage.
Duelist weapon: same logic on it's critical roles, but the daily power is explained that the weapon has been balanced in such a way that it's easier to feint attack someone, thus giving you that combat advantage.
Terror weapons: That fear daily isn't magical but because this weapon just really does look that frightening.
Flaming weapons: Only if it makes sense for it to be flaming like a flaming arrow.
Bracer of Mighty Striking: Wrist support is underrated by most people.
Bracer of Perfect Shot: Again wrist support is underrated by most people.
Bashing Shield: You can hit anyone over the head with a shield, but this shield is built a bit more study for pushing back your foes.
Acrobat boots, Catstep boots, Boots of spider climbing: I can see any of these as non magical and just custom shoes. I know when I go climbing IRL that I don't wear my running shoes. I wear climbing shoes that make it easier for me to climb.
Burglar's gloves: Don't most criminals like a nice pair of gloves?
Potion of Healing: It's not magical. It's medical.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 8:08PM
#30
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Well, as most people said, avoid monsters that require spell-damage and it should be fine... the martial characters are good enough that they aren't weaklings- same goes for psionics though not sure about how that would be looked upon...
may i inquire as to the nature of your friend's religious beleifs? i know "we're past the point of moral dilemna"but i am inclined to wonder how even the divine powersource could be viewed as evil
(particularly since any religion trusts in the "magic" given by god and placed in the clergy... is it just the paganistic nature of these gods? if so you could make it monotheistic and let the kids have fun with that...)
it's curiosity and brainstorming thats driving me right now,
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