|
3 years ago ::
May 15, 2010 - 12:35PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2009
|
With all the debate about how the two interact, I'm surprised no one asked wizards prior to me.
| Customer (XXXXXXXX) |
05/14/2010 06:44 PM |
The core rules question is: does an effect stating that a creature doesn't provoke opportunity attacks have any effect on powers and feats that let a creature make an opportunity attack when a condition happens?
If you compare the text of Polearm Gamble and Halo of Warding, there is an implication that there is a difference between provoking an attack, and triggering an opportunity action.
* Is polearm gamble triggered by a shifting enemy?
* Is polearm gamble triggered by a halfling with Know When to Fold?
* Can an avenger with Halo of Warding attack a swordmage with combat casting when the swordmage uses a power that lets it move and attack?
* If an enemy triggers a combat challenge from a fighter with allied opportunity by shifting, can an adjacent ally use its opportunity action to make an attack of opportunity?
* If an enemy is knocked prone by Reaving Axe Tyrant (or Reaving Axe Slayer or Reaving Axe Brute), and stands from an occupied square, it shifts. Does it provoke the attacks of opportunity the feat specifies? |
| Response (Support Rep) |
05/15/2010 08:36 AM |
Hello XXXXXXXXXX,
1.1. Is polearm gamble triggered by a shifting enemy?
A. Yep, it's not triggered off of the type of move.
1.2. Is polearm gamble triggered by a halfling with Know When to Fold?
A. Yep, as it's triggered off entering a square, not leaving.
2. Can an avenger with Halo of Warding attack a swordmage with combat casting when the swordmage uses a power that lets it move and attack?
A. Yes, at it's triggered off of the movement, instead of the attack (which combat casting protects).
3. If an enemy triggers a combat challenge from a fighter with allied opportunity by shifting, can an adjacent ally use its opportunity action to make an attack of opportunity?
A. If you're asking if they can get two Opportunity actions against one guy in the same round. The answer is no, they'd only get that one.
4. If an enemy is knocked prone by Reaving Axe Tyrant (or Reaving Axe Slayer or Reaving Axe Brute), and stands from an occupied square, it shifts. Does it provoke the attacks of opportunity the feat specifies?
A. Yes it'd work, as it's an interrupt (Happens before they actually stand up/shift). The action just needed to be 'noted' before it activated.
Please let me know if you need anymore help!
We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you. Link Removed.
To login to your account, or update your question please Link Removed.
Troy
Online Response Crew
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST
Saturday-Sunday 10am-4pm PST / 1pm-7pm EST
|
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 15, 2010 - 3:28PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
Shift doesn't provoke OA's when leaving an adjacent square, but Polearm Gamble seems specific on how it triggers, letting you make an OA when a specific event occur.
Wanna take this to the Customer Services Consolidated Answer Board for easy reference and everyone enjoyement fedyakin ?
EDIT I hadn't realised this, but it also means Shift still provoke an OA when not adjacent of a creature with Threatening Reach while moving within it.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 15, 2010 - 4:10PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2008
|
The latest updates changed the rules for shifting: "No Opportunity Attacks: Your movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks." Shifting no longer provokes opportunity attacks, regardless if you're entering or leaving a square. 1.1. Is polearm gamble triggered by a shifting enemy?
A. Yep, it's not triggered off of the type of move.
This is an interpretation of the Polearm Gamble rules that I disagree with.
In my opinion, Polearm Gamble adds an additional potential trigger for making opportunity attacks. However, you still can't use that trigger if the enemy is using a form of movement that specifically prevents opportunity attacks (such as shifting, teleporting, or forced movement).
EDIT: Corrected quote attribution.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 15, 2010 - 4:18PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
The latest updates changed the rules for shifting:
"No Opportunity Attacks: Your movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks."
Shifting no longer provokes opportunity attacks, regardless if you're entering or leaving a square.
logopolis, i can't find the changes your mentioning in the May Rules Update. Where did you get that from ?
PS I didn't write what you quoted me on. I don't know if you can delete that.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 15, 2010 - 4:34PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2008
|
Odd, it is indeed missing from the May 2010 update PDF. But it is present in the Compendium and on page 20 of the compiled update PDF ( www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatesArchive...). EDIT: Ah, I see why. The change to shifting was in the January 2010 updates, not the May 2010 updates. Apologies, I was quoting fedyakin for the second part of the post.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 15, 2010 - 4:47PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
Odd, it is indeed missing from the May 2010 update PDF. But it is present in the Compendium and on page 20 of the compiled update PDF (www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatesArchive...).
EDIT: Ah, I see why. The change to shifting was in the January 2010 updates, not the May 2010 updates.
Apologies, I was quoting fedyakin for the second part of the post.
Thanks It's okay. Ha i see. I forgot that one. So no OA's on Polearm Gamble or any Threatening Reach then.
fedyakin, finally, don't post this yet in the CustServ. 
If your answer is recent, can you ask a follow-up question and bring this Rule Update to light ? This answer is clearly wrong.
Here's what it fully says on the Errata to Shift:
Rule Update Jan2010 P. 15
Shift Page 292: In the “No Opportunity Attacks” section, replace the current text with “Your movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.” The former text did not take into consideration abilities that allow a creature to make opportunity attacks beyond adjacent squares, such as with threatening reach.
- No Opportunity Attacks: Your movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 15, 2010 - 9:05PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2009
|
I asked the question 5/14/2010, and recieved this answer 5/15/2010 (The dates are in the op). The shift wording change has nothing to do with the polearm gamble class of feats / powers. The key thing to notice is that these feats allow someone to make an attack of opportunity. They don't say the creature provokes an attack of opportunity. If they didn't want it to trigger on shift, they would have said so; witness the Halo of Warding feat (listed below). If they wanted it to provoke they would have said so as well; witness the Beast Protector feat(listed below).
Consider an Invoker with Divine Protection power active moving adjacent to an Avenger with Halo of Warding feat. Should the avenger get to make its opportunity attack? Why or why not?
Halo of Warding
Benefit: While you are adjacent to your oath of enmity target, you can make an opportunity attack against any other enemy that moves into a square adjacent to you, provided the enemy does not shift or is not moved into that square by teleportation or forced movement.
Beast Protector
Benefit: If an enemy makes a melee attack against your beast companion, doing so provokes an opportunity attack from you. If you are adjacent to your beast companion, you can make this attack even if you can’t reach the attacker (you attack the attacker’s reaching limb, for instance).
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 16, 2010 - 12:13AM
#8
|
Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
|
I asked the question 5/14/2010, and recieved this answer 5/15/2010 (The dates are in the op). The shift wording change has nothing to do with the polearm gamble class of feats / powers. The key thing to notice is that these feats allow someone to make an attack of opportunity. They don't say the creature provokes an attack of opportunity. If they didn't want it to trigger on shift, they would have said so; witness the Halo of Warding feat (listed below).
Shift's new take has everything to do with it i think.
The Feat Polearm Gamble is almost identical to Threatening Reach for triggerring OA's off of a movement. Only the distance differ. Both kick off when one leave a square within your reach with the difference that PG is specific as to where the creature will end his movement. With your take on the absence of the word provoke, a Forced Movement would trigger PG.
Shift never provoke an OA, nor Forced Movement do provoke OA's or Opportunity Action. If you have a specific Power triggerring as an Opportunity Action when a creature moves X squares, it won't kick off if a Pull is at the origin of the movement. Even if the Power is specific. Because it's specific to all Forced Movement. Nor would Polearm Gamble trigger on a Push.
If a Rogue uses Easy Target and now has the enemy granting CA (save end), he won't get Combat Advantage against it if he is Blind or otherwise cannot see the enemy because a specific Rule lies within CA saying you must be able to see your target to have CA against it. Same thing. Shift never trigger OA's.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 16, 2010 - 10:59AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2009
|
You should read threatening reach; it's absolutely nothing like polearm gamble.
Threatening Reach
A creature that has threatening reach can make an opportunity attack against any enemy within its reach that provokes an opportunity attack.
The best refutation of your argument is Weapon Master's Strike (fighter at-will). This power includes the following text: "Spear or Polearm: Until the end of your next turn, the target provokes opportunity attacks from you when it shifts." It seems very clear that this power allows an opportunity attack on a shifting creature. The logical implication of this is that shift is not a blanket immunity to attacks of opportunity. Specific powers and feats can allow atacks of opportunity against shifting creatures. Therefore polearm gamble can be triggered off of a shift.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
May 16, 2010 - 12:24PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2008
|
Specific powers and feats can allow atacks of opportunity against shifting creatures.
Correct. Since weapon master's strike specifically says that you can make an OA when an enemy shifts, it takes precedence. But Polearm Gamble does no such thing -- it does not specifically say anything about shifting.
Consider this example: As a general rule, you cannot take opportunity attacks while you are dazed. But Polearm Gamble says "when a nonadjacent enemy enters a square adjacent to you, you can make an opportunity attack with a polearm against that enemy (...)".
If the Polearm Gamble feat trumps everything, does this mean that you can make an opportunity attack against that enemy if you're dazed as well? No, because if a feat or power overrides a general rule it must specifically say so.
|
|
|
