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3 years ago ::
May 12, 2010 - 8:48PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2009
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Hey LDB, Great build! Couple of observations: 1. Why not take your Level 18 stat bumps in Str and Dex, apply the Demigod bumps to Str and Wis, then apply the Level 28 to Str and Con? You'd end up with Con 16 and Dex 17, rather than Con 15 and Dex 18. 2. Did you see my Githzerai hybrid ranger build? I know you're (quite rightfully) partial to the Longtooth Shifters, but this guy as a Githzerai with Zuoken's Centering? Jeez, that's a tough out ... Just some thoughts.
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3 years ago ::
May 12, 2010 - 9:28PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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1. As you noticed, I'm already sitting on double-digit surges. That combined with Cruel Recovery means that the difference from 10 to 11 surges likely won't be too significant, but the +1 Reflex defense could come in handy.
2. I've seen it. That build caters to a different style of hardy Ranger, though; Strength is still the ability score of paramount importance here, and the Shifter is significantly sturdier in Heroic and as sturdy in Paragon or above as a Githzerai variant would be, and it's a more efficient hitter.
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 2:02AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2009
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Do you think that TW Defense is that much more useful than TW Opening? I Understand a static bonus to AC and Ref is good but as a striker wouldn't the possibility of free attacks out weigh the def buff? Though I do understand the secondary as a Defender so this point may not apply to this build
Also have you thought about Blade Dancer? You would lose the defender secondary but could gain a little more DPR.
Also to play up the Defender part what about Weave a Web of Steel? Off turn, Interrupt two attacks that can force any enemy to miss. Could bump out DPR and save you from a stun attack or the like. Again I do realize your other dailys are amazing but such is the ranger blight.
Also for your off hand might I suggest a Master's Blade, this way you could have Master of the Hunt And Snarling Wolf Stance up and going for a whole encounter.
As always your build is amazing and I very much appreciate the level by level guide
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 3:48AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2008
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Awesome build LDB! I love your paragon path choice, it's got a nice mix of offense and defense. Perfect example of practical optimization right here, keep up the good work! Not much to change really, it's extremely solid the way it is. 
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 4:18AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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Can't let go of your firstborn, can you ? Good stuff. But it makes me happy to see that my poor little single class, "no race" Rogue gives the Ranger a real run for his money these days.
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 7:59AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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Do you think that TW Defense is that much more useful than TW Opening? I Understand a static bonus to AC and Ref is good but as a striker wouldn't the possibility of free attacks out weigh the def buff? Though I do understand the secondary as a Defender so this point may not apply to this build
Also have you thought about Blade Dancer? You would lose the defender secondary but could gain a little more DPR.
Also to play up the Defender part what about Weave a Web of Steel? Off turn, Interrupt two attacks that can force any enemy to miss. Could bump out DPR and save you from a stun attack or the like. Again I do realize your other dailys are amazing but such is the ranger blight.
Also for your off hand might I suggest a Master's Blade, this way you could have Master of the Hunt And Snarling Wolf Stance up and going for a whole encounter.
As always your build is amazing and I very much appreciate the level by level guide
For this build, I think Two-Weapon Opening came out to an increase in of about 4 DPR. The TWO vs TWD debate was one of the last things to iron out before he posted the build, but it became really easy when we put it into perspective.
The determining factor was the fact that the At-Will DPR was already comfortably over the breakpoint for killing a L30 Standard Brute in 3 turns. Adding the extra 4 DPR would make it look more glamorous, but wouldn't actually benefit him as much, in the long run.
Blade Dancer would also be a HUGE sacrifice, because one of this build's biggest strengths is the fact that it brings all of this killing ability while also being extremely self-sufficient. It stands a VERY good chance of being at or near max HP by the time it buries its second target, because of the sheer volume of temps it generates.
This build is 100% geared toward winning actual encounters.
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 8:53AM
#57
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Do you think that TW Defense is that much more useful than TW Opening? I Understand a static bonus to AC and Ref is good but as a striker wouldn't the possibility of free attacks out weigh the def buff? Though I do understand the secondary as a Defender so this point may not apply to this build
Also have you thought about Blade Dancer? You would lose the defender secondary but could gain a little more DPR.
Also to play up the Defender part what about Weave a Web of Steel? Off turn, Interrupt two attacks that can force any enemy to miss. Could bump out DPR and save you from a stun attack or the like. Again I do realize your other dailys are amazing but such is the ranger blight.
Also for your off hand might I suggest a Master's Blade, this way you could have Master of the Hunt And Snarling Wolf Stance up and going for a whole encounter.
As always your build is amazing and I very much appreciate the level by level guide
At this point, as Auspex mentioned, Two-Weapon Opening is (a) duplicated in its entirety by Harmony Blade, and (b) adding a rather minuscule portion of DPR (about 4 or so). The +1 AC/Reflex serves me better.
Blade Dancer is just not as good as Pathfinder in terms of benefits. +1 damage and AC vs. 2d8/3d8+Wis THP per hit is just not a contest. Also, Blade Dancer takes care to be rider-independent, which in any case would make it a bit more attractive to the usually squishier Str/Dex Ranger.
Weave a Web of Steel might find its way into the build, I'll have to debate on whether losing Snarling Wolf Stance merits it (though I am inclined toward the idea).
As for the Master's Blade, it offers comparatively little (I have 2 Stances at the most, and its +1 to hit only applies to the attacks for that weapon), and costs a lot monetarily. Not worth it, especially when I can have a Ranged option sitting there waiting for an opportune situation to be used instead.
@langeweile: Are you talking in DPR, or burst damage? Because I very much doubt the latter, and the former was never this build's modus operandi. For that, you should measure up against the Stormwarden. Also, good luck finding a Rogue this tough to kill.
@Auspex7: Thanks for addressing the comments. 
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 9:21AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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@langeweile: Are you talking in DPR, or burst damage? Because I very much doubt the latter, and the former was never this build's modus operandi. For that, you should measure up against the Stormwarden. Also, good luck finding a Rogue this tough to kill.
For nova... I'm still sitting at over 1k (850 pre Milestone) damage (including actual to-hit calculations ) with my "no assumptions" Rogue build - twice a day !
And no question, that Ranger is more durable - on the other hand that Rogue still can bring quite some debuffs to the table, still has solid defense (regulary, utils, mobility, stealth) and is certainly very very versatile. I don't say the one (or the other) is better - I just said that I could give you a run for that money.
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 11:15AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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@langeweile: Are you talking in DPR, or burst damage? Because I very much doubt the latter, and the former was never this build's modus operandi. For that, you should measure up against the Stormwarden. Also, good luck finding a Rogue this tough to kill.
For nova... I'm still sitting at over 1k (850 pre Milestone) damage (including actual to-hit calculations ) with my "no assumptions" Rogue build - twice a day !
And no question, that Ranger is more durable - on the other hand that Rogue still can bring quite some debuffs to the table, still has solid defense (regulary, utils, mobility, stealth) and is certainly very very versatile. I don't say the one (or the other) is better - I just said that I could give you a run for that money.
Some food for thought:
1. The extra damage on the 1k nova is irrelevant. The highest hp non-Solo in the game is a Beholder Eternal Tyrant Shell (Dragon 377), at 720 HP. Most Elites actually have less than 600 HPs. Either one of you is killing them in 1-2 turns (allowing for set-up turn), and neither of you is killing a deity in 2 turns, even if it's Soycake the Merciful, God of Passive Tofu. Even with higher raw damage output on the Novas, you're not dropping scripted Novas into deities in most real encounters. Elites? Yes. Solos? No.
2. The Rogue and the Trailblazer don't always plug into the same slot in a group. The Trailblazer can serve as a melee frontliner, and welcomes punches to the face. That's not an exaggeration, either. If the Ranger is being hit, the enemy is dealing damage to a stream of surge-free HP, rather than digging into party resources. The party actually benefits from the Trailblazer being attacked. This isn't just a difference in durability, it's a difference in funtionality and versatility. In a discussion about party composition, this type of Ranger will be recognized as a better pick-up for most groups than the Rogue.
My .02
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3 years ago ::
May 13, 2010 - 1:15PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2009
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LDB, in your handbook you recommend Serpentine Dodge over Weave through the Fray for the lvl 6 utility for melee rangers, but in all your builds (including this one) you seem to pick up Weave through the Fray. Mind if I ask why? This build is more inclined to actually stay put when an enemy arrives adjacent to him, is it not?
San Francisco Bay Area D&Der.
Loyal fan of the Birthright campaign setting.
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