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Well, guys, I don't have any actual build updates, but I do have a new picture up in front. More of an action pose for this one. What say you?

May 21, 2010 -- 11:20PM, lordduskblade wrote:

Well, guys, I don't have any actual build updates, but I do have a new picture up in front. More of an action pose for this one. What say you?

Well, you still have some novas to fill in. Also, for the tatoo, have you looked at Tatoo of Vengeance?

As for the pic, I like it.

Filled in the novas. And no I don't like the Tattoo of Vengeance. I've gone levels without getting critted; hardly do I get through a fight without getting bloodied, especially because I can induce it if need be.

And I'm glad you like the pic. Any other thoughts?

Yeah my DM is lucky. We seem to get crit a lot. If you knew you were going to be crit, would you pick vengeance? A +3 for encounter seems nice.

If it showed up a lot, heck yes. A great choice under the circumstances you describe, but just not that applicable overall.

For those curious about a more nova-oriented pathfinder, here's my take on one.  He was cruising around 2200 damage before the follow-up blow update, but he still manages to clock in with over 1700 if he uses Act Together.  It's probably not 'op-fu' legal though because it requires one other party member to spend an action point before you so you can use Act Together. In actual play, that's about the easiest condition to satisfy, especially if your party knows what you're capable of, but it is what it is.

Spoiler: Show

Note that I don't really recommend it as it has to use a fair portion of expensive items just to make it possible and loses all ranged support, among other things; but perhaps some pieces might be of use.  The pathfinder's durability remains, and only suffers a slight penalty in defense by losing two-weapon defense.

It uses the pit fighter's old double battlecrazed weapon attacks to get some extra nova oomph.

Hey, there's an interesting variant. I'm skeptical about the penalty to defenses and the power-swap, though: the difference between AC 45 and 46 is a bit bigger than is apparent. Also, losing the Harmony Blade and the Farbond Spellblade makes you more of a one-track Striker.

All that said, I'll be adding this to the Variants section. Thanks!

Oh nice, thanks! I agree that the build is more of a one-trick pony.  The pathfinder I play at my table is far more akin to the original post,  and quite enjoyable to play (he's doubling as the main defender so he's  focused on items and abilities that gave him more marks as well).

I can imagine some of the more risky types making use of battlecrazed  weapons, though.  With the pathfinder temp hp generation, they could  remain 'safely' bloodied for a longer period to make use of the  battlecrazed weapons, especially with the longtooth shifter regen  covering the edges the temp hp doesn't.  Just beware the rare monster  with the insta-kill when bloodied attacks.

If people are looking to push the 'risky' damage build further, the MP2 paragon path Bloodfury hunter may be the way to go. Of course with even stronger incentives to battle while bloodied, a few powers or items that can provide survivabililty (perhaps weathered resistance, or blood of the fallen lvl10 utils & dwarven armor) would be needed lest this be high damage but very reliant on ally heal or just die too quick.

Certainly wouldnt be an overall stronger rounded combo, but should be quite fun to attempt to practiaclly play and tweak.

I've run the numbers on Bloodfury Hunter v. Pathfinder. Pathfinder's extra move action actually results in more damage than Bloodfury Hunter on nova turn, even when the Bloodfury Hunter is bloodied (hooray for Martial Mastery!). I was thinking about posting a build along those lines as well, but Pathfinder is pretty much stronger overall.

I'm going to be playing a Two Blade Ranger with pretty much this exact build in mind. Mind you, instead of a Longtooth Shifter, I'll be playing a Half-Orc simply because I **much** prefer their racial abilities and feats. +2 speed when charging with Marauder's Rush? Encounter power that gives me [W] damage plus all passive bonuses as a free action? Fresh Temporary Hit Points at bloodied when monsters are trying to Nova me (played an Avenger last game who once had all the mobs attack him at the same time and went from full health to bleeding on the floor in one round... ouch)? YES PLEASE!

My own build will replace Prime Hunter with Ferocious Critical (very beautiful Half-Orc feat at Epic tiers).

My own question is this: While Two-Weapon Defense is really sweet, Two-Weapon Fighting is absolutely one of the worst feats I've ever come across, and I really loath the idea of having to take it. So assuming we dump those two feats, which two heroic or paragon tier feats would you replace them with? So far, I'm thinking Heavy Blade Opportunity and Thirst For Battle, but I'm open to ideas. Fortunately, won't have to make this decision until level 10 or so.

Only condition I would ask is that you not include multi-classing feats.

Well, remember that Furious Assault only adds a [W] to a power you're already using, not the statics (it's not a weapon power, it's not melee, so literally no bonuses apply). The feat Unrelenting Assault makes it deal 1[W] on a miss, which combined with Twin Strike means you deal the same damage on hit or miss on one attack roll per encounter, which is nice. Longtooth Shifter is there for extra damage and durability (I can't tell you how valuable that regeneration is in a tough fight, and rumor has it Rangers like encounter-long damage bonuses).

Since you're asking for no MC, I would have to say Anger Unleashed and Strength from Pain. Together, they give you +2 to hit and +5 to damage for a whole turn when first bloodied (which you can induce with a Blood Fury Weapon, which is included in the build).

Hmmm ... damn, you're right, I did misread that. I was assuming it was essentially a free auto-hit swing, not a boost to the existing attack. That makes it *way* different (not to mention *way* useless at higher levels since it doesn't scale).

Hmmm, okay, so assuming I roll a Longtooth Shifter instead, what two feats would you recommend to replace TWF and TWD?

Battle Awareness if you change your mind on Multiclass feats (I recommend you do; this nets you a free attack every encounter). Otherwise, I'd recommend Beasthide Shifting and Triumphant Attack.

Actually, Battle Awareness looks pretty sweet. Now I wonder if there's a good Fighter feat that I could combine with that.

Something to keep in mind:  Activating Blood Fury may ruin your use of the Backlash Tattoo, so you might want to choose a different tattoo.  Backlash Tattoo is an immediate reaction, and you can't take immediate action on your own turn.  You are first making yourself bloodied on your turn, which triggers Backlash.  Backlash's immediate action can't fire because it's your turn, and you can't become bloodied for the first time later in the fight.  Thus, Backlash is wasted if you use Blood Fury early in a fight.

It's an odd rules interaction, but it is worth considering if you plan to use Blood Fury weapons.

Well, wasted if you use it and no one is adjacent. I suggest you take care that someone is, but you have a point in that it's something you have to look out for.

I think you missed the point there LDB. You will never get to use the free attack as your not allowed to use it during your turn if you activate becoming bloodied on your turn.

Ah, yes. That is true. A price to pay, it seems, but it can be worth if if you want to frontload damage and not actually get bloodied up.

You might consider Tattoo of the Wolverine as an alternative? It's kind of not-all-that on its own, but it combos with Blood Fury pretty well.

I would say no, because it only applies for 1 attack. That's kind of a meager buff for a Ranger, who makes 2 attacks or more as a matter of course during encounters.

New update time! I have decided to replace Begin the Hunt for the more defensively-oriented (and much more reliable) Invigorating Stride, and I have also decided to change the picture. Thoughts on either?

Invigorating Stride is very useful utility power indeed. It let you use second wind as move action, which Pathfinder can get from AP. Although you must end the shift far from enemy, this still let you charge, retreat, or use ranged power.

For the pic, he looks more dangerous than ever. Because this time he jumps at me!
Maybe next one is a pic that show his relaxing smile....

I'd be interested in seeing your Bloodfury Hunter variant on this build,  LDB. 

Pathfinder definitely looks to be the stronger choice overall, but it would be  interesting to see your thoughts for the sake of comparison, anyway.

Two questions:

1) What is the damage gain/loss if we compare TWO vs Rending Tempest?

2) How about a circlet of arkhosia 14/24 (PHR: dragonborn), I don't know how often you assume you can charge for the extra 1-3d6 but saving vs daze and stun (and dominate) at the start of your turn could yield more damage/utility than that. And beginning in mid paragon daze is not that uncommon. And the item is cheaper, maybe you can buy something interesting with the saved money. Like a Belt of Mountain Endurance (L18 d365)  or a Diamond Cincture (L20 AV2) for when you used your belts daily...

EDIT: more questions^^

3) Is there a reason for the blood fury weapon being a drow long knife -  I assume no - a dagger would be as good. And regarding the enchantment, the only use is to trigger your shifter racial ability?

4) How about a Demonskin Tattoo 3/13/23? - Encounterlong resistance 5/10/15 against a damage type of your choice seems reasonable on an action point. If you have 3 entcounters a day you could have the resistance up a 100% of the time begining with lvl12. E1: AP; E2: use lvl12 utility, reach Milestone; E3: AP. Of course your Backlash Tattoo works in every encounter but you can miss the "timing".

1) Well, in controlled nova damage the loss will be significant, because Rending Tempest adds extra [W]'s on every hit, whereas Two-Weapon Opening only comes in on a critical (so Rending Tempest is more reliable). Additionally, the Harmony Blade's critical property replicates Two-Weapon Opening almost exactly, so it's not like I don't have an effect along those lines already. As far as DPR contribution is concerned...

(0.80)*(0.70)*(6) + (0.80)*(0.10)*(10) + (0.10)*(0.70)*(6) + (0.10)*(0.10)*(10) = 4.68 DPR from Rending Tempest.

(0.10)*(0.70)*(41) + (0.10)*(0.10)*(85) = 3.72 DPR from Two-Weapon Opening.

2) Given that I have yet to go through an entire encounter with this build without having Marauder's Rush (and that I already have reliable protection against daze and/or stun in the Steadfast Amulet), I felt a bit of charge optimization was in order. While the Circlet of Arkhosia is nice (though at Epic I am more partial to the Coif of Focus), I like having a legitimate second At-Will damage option for when I can't reach my target, be it because of daze, my move action not covering enough squares, etc., and Marauder's Rush with a Horned Helm gives me that (clocking in at over 80 DPR at 30th - not bad for a backup).

3) The Blood Fury Weapon is a Axe or Heavy Blade enchantment, and its being a Long Knife is purely for fluff reasons - another weapon could suffice. The only real use in this build is to trigger the shifter racial ability, yes.

4) I could consider the Demonskin Tattooo a viable alternative, yes, though it is a bit more conditional - not every encounter will have those elemental types, and not every encounter has an AP to spend.

The question TWO or Rending Tempest is solved. TWO doesn't stack with Harmony Blade anymore. They still stack.

I'd like to see your changes based on the July Update.
- Free Action Nerf: shouldn't be a biggie for your build
- Snarling Wolf Stance
- Spot Weakness

Well, boys, the errata has come and gone, and so have changes to the build!

Spot Weakness is not as hot as it used to be, so it gets replaced by Resume the Hunt from the Ranger's own list. To synergize with it, I have chosen to replace Serpentine Dodge with Death Threat. Now, these two together give me a powerful sequence as a free action when I drop someone: I can move my speed (with the first square of that move not provoking any OA's), I gain +2 to all my defenses, I designate any creature within 5 squares as my Quarry, and I gain combat advantage against that creature until end of turn. Not bad considering I spend exactly 2 free actions to get that done.

As for Snarling Wolf Stance, I'm not too ruffled by the change. This build is light on immediates, and it still puts out big damage for me.

Update time! I've made some minor alterations to this build, mainly placing a greater priority on initiative boosting items.

Hey LDB, I was looking over your nova rounds and noticed that your encounter nova attack rolls are 2 higher than your daily ones at the same level.  I was curious about the discrepancy and if you could give a breakdown of the hit bonuses.

Ah, yes, I see what happened: the L12 and L16 Encounter nova attack bonuses were too high. My mistake.

As for attack bonus breakdowns, they look something like this:

Level 1:
+4 (Strength)
+2 (Proficiency)
Total: +6

Level 6:
+4 (Strength)
+3 (Levels)
+3 (Proficiency)
+2 (Combat Advantage)
+1 enhancement (+1 Weapon)
Total: +11, or +13 with combat advantage

Level 12:
+6 (Levels)
+5 (Strength)
+3 (Proficiency)
+2 (Combat Advantage)
+2 enhancement (+2 Weapon)
+1 feat (Weapon Expertise)
+1 (Prime Shot)
Total: +18, or +20 with combat advantage

Level 16:
+8 (Levels)
+6 (Strength)
+3 (Proficiency)
+3 enhancement (+3 Weapon)
+2 feat (Weapon Expertise)
+2 (Combat Advantage)
+2 (Prime Shot)
Total: +24, or +26 with combat advantage

Level 24:
+12 (Levels)
+8 (Strength)
+5 enhancement (+5 Weapon)
+3 (Proficiency)
+2 feat (Weapon Expertise)
+2 (Combat Advantage)
+2 (Prime Shot)
+1 (Prime Hunter)
Total: +33, or +35 with combat advantage

Level 30:
+15 (Levels)
+9 (Strength)
+6 enhancement (+6 Weapon)
+3 feat (Weapon Expertise)
+3 (Proficiency)
+2 (Combat Advantage)
+2 (Prime Shot)
+1 (Prime Hunter)
Total: +39, or +41 with combat advantage

The only notable exception to these numbers are Cruel Cage of Steel and Untamed Outburst, which carry an inherent +2 to hit.

Thanks LDB

No problem.

As proof that I can't seem to leave this build be, we have (yet another) picture.

How would a half-orc variant of this build hold up?  Or would a half-orc just be much better off going with Slash and Dash instead?

A Half-Orc would likely be better off with Slash & Dash, yeah. The Half-Orc temporary HP are pretty redundant with the Pathfinder's Cruel Recovery, this build has no room for all those cool Half-Orc racial feats, and you're packing a lower Wisdom until Epic, and the Longtooth Shifter racial is better for durability and nova damage (our goals, pretty much). That said, it's probably the second-best option (though Humans and Minotaurs are in the mix for that as well).

First, I love this build.

That said, something has been troubling me about your NOVA calculations for quite some time.  In many of your examples, on Turn 1 you use a minor action to trigger the Encounter power of your Blood Fury weapon.  How are you doing that without holding the weapon in your hand?  If you are holding it, how did it get there in the first place and are you dropping it in Turn 2?

Even assuming you have a Ruby Scabbard, the property of the scabbard only applies if you are drawing the weapon in conjunction with an attack action.  Additionally, it does not apply to stowing a weapon.

Or am I wrong in my assumption that you have to be wielding the weapon to trigger the Encounter power?  Is having it in a scabbard on your body enough (i.e. you grab the hilt while it is sheathed to trigger the power, never actually drawing it)?

I believe you do have to be wielding it, yes. But, starting the encounter with the Long Knife in hand (and nothing else, since both Bastard Swords would be in the Ruby Scabbards and can thus be drawn as part of the attack action), using the power, then dropping it as a free action (and picking it up once the encounter is over) is not too imagination-stretching a sequence.

I would also like to point out that the Miscellaneous section now has a Character Builder-compatible summary of the Trailblazer, courtesy of Face_Stab.

Update time! I have decided to take a Daily at L25 in this build; Snarling Wolf Stance will be replaced by Frantic Assault, with the reasoning behind it being that Frantic Assault will provide the build with the ability to generate the raw damage you need to bury an Elite a few levels ahead of schedule (before the arrival of Ultimate Confrontation, which will then replace it).

Ooo and its an effect nice

Well, guys, it's time for more updates! I have decided to move the DPR values to the Data post alongside nova numbers, and I have also changed the levels I will be looking at somewhat. Now, DPR and nova values for levels 1, 6, 11, 16, 21, 26, and 30 are being displayed. Additionally, a minor priority swap has occurred between the Rending Tempest and Slashing Storm feats. Any comments?

Hey LDB!

I'm playing a level 23 build which is very much inspired by your template and really loving it. Ranger's Nova's combined with Pathfinder's versatility (extra moves), spiced up with constant THP's is pure win.

Instead of boosting AC with feats I've gone for versatility and have a few extra feats remaining. I decided to MC into Avenger for story line reasons as well as Oath of Enmity which makes Nova's simply brilliant. I've been looking onto ways of using this (extra feat for cool/effective) Novice/Adepth Powers, but haven't really found anything which would be special. The build is devoted to Raven Queen which gives access to few special feats, but again nothing fancy.

Any thoughts/suggestions/ideas about Avenger MC for Ranger/Pathfinder/Demigod build? Symbol of Sustenance would seem as something which would let me extend Oath of Enmity by an extra round, but is OoE really an encounter power or is it a feature?

Also, does Act together really allow one to use more than 1 AP in a single encounter? If memory serves the rules say that you can always use only on AP per encounter but is this differnt for Act Together?

Again, loving the build and thanks for the handbooks!

- Astriag

Hey LDB,

been a long time stalker of the optimization forum and I must say, I am a big fan of your templates as well as your elaborated presentation of them on the boards!

Since my GM wants to start a Dark Sun campaign, I plan to play a ranger similiar to this build. Unfortunately I am only allowed to pick a race specifically from the Dark Sun campaign setting, so Shifter ist out.

You mentioned in an earlier post, that Human and Minotaur would be solid second-best race choices (together with half-orc which is obviously out too in a Dark Sun races only setting). I can't see myself playing a cow-headed hero, but how would a human variant of this build fare? And what would be the differences in feats and stat distribution?

Thanks in advance and kudos to you for your builds!

Lemoncurry

Thri-Kreen would work just fine here; a Str 18, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8 array would result from it, and then you boost Str and Wis every time from there on out.

Sep 13, 2010 -- 9:59AM, lordduskblade wrote:

Thri-Kreen would work just fine here; a Str 18, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8 array would result from it, and then you boost Str and Wis every time from there on out.

Thanks for the quick reply!
Unfortunately, for me playing a 4-armed insectoid thing ranks even below playing a cow-headed ranger... I guess, I am a bad optimizer in this regard. ;-)

Maybe instead of creating a slightly sub-par human "trailblazer" I should try the ranged ranger path (after all elf is possible) albeit it's lower DPS...

Human can work out just fine. That extra fine will give you mileage.

Sep 12, 2010 -- 12:10PM, Astriag wrote:

Also, does Act together really allow one to use more than 1 AP in a single encounter? If memory serves the rules say that you can always use only on AP per encounter but is this differnt for Act Together?

You are still limited to one AP per encounter.  However, Crown of Victory, a lvl 29 head slot item, raises this limit to 2, and there might be some other ways as well.

This build has been added to The Hall of Heroes thread.

Thanks MC.

Also, I want to mention that the build has undergone some changes: the build is now an Eternal Seeker for the awesome power selection, most notably Rune of Hero's Resolve and Hurricane of Blades. We get our Strength bonus back thanks to Barbarian Multiclass and the Reincarnate Champion's Epic Vitality. The DPR goes down a couple of points, but the nova damage goes way, way up. Thoughts?

Hey guys, couple of questions:

1. Is the Punisher of the Gods's level 21 power (Immortal Curse: Basically gives you standard action when you crit) worth taking? 

2. Is the Eternal Seeker a better ED than Punisher of the Gods overall with the Ranger/Pathfinder build? 

While I love Immortal Curse to death, you're sitting at a 19% or so chance to score a critical, and it only works on one enemy at a time. It's kind of limited when you think about it.

I definitely think Eternal Seeker is better. The ability to take Hurricane of Blades and Rune of the Hero's Resolve is downright amazing for a Ranger, and stealing Epic Resilience certainly doesn't hurt the cause.

Master of the Hunt and Rune of the Hero's Resolve are both level 22 Utility powers, and MotH basically brings about 60 extra damage for the daily nova encounter. 60 damage when you're already doing 1200+ isn't that big of a deal, so I was wondering what you thought about the Rejuvenate Mind (PHB3, from Godmind ED) power instead for level 26? It gives back all your Daily Powers, which makes you a lot stronger, in case that BBEG doesn't die with your 1150+ damage.

It requires multiclassing into a psionic class (probably Monk), but it seems worth it to me. Any thoughts?

EDIT: Just realized Epic Trick from PHB does the same thing, and even lets you choose between recovering Encounter Powers or Dailies. Still, I'm curious on your thoughts of either one. 

You can't steal a Utility power from Godmind using Eternal Seeker (or from any Epic Destiny, for that matter). So it doesn't really matter what I think of it, since I can't use it.

D'oh, I keep thinking that the power lets them choose from any class/PP/ED, my bad :/

What I find really good about this PP is that it's almost perfect for a striker / defender. It's reflected both in the powers and the features (marking power at level 20). I mean, it's not perfectly synergistic, but I'm in the market for a good PP next level and it will be a toss up between this, Mithral Arm (the daily at level 20 can be used to recharge Hurricane of Blades at level 27, from Eternal Seeker, with a free set up teleport), Paragon Hybrid (I know, sucky, but since it saves me 3 feats for plate armor, gives me an extra level 19 daily from ranger class, and a level 10 utility which is pretty useful...hmm so many decisions.

This pathfinder getting so many temp HPs is very powerful though. It's basically an extra ~14 temp hps per round which amounts to damage resistance 14. It's quite hard getting that many temps in one shot, this makes the ranger tougher than many defenders, IMO. Temps work for any defense targetted.

LDB, have you considered the defensive benefits of boosting your Hunter's Quarry damage with this PP over other defensive feats? E.g. if HQ gets a boost of 3 by epic with a feat, is DR 17 vs 14 worth more than a bump in 2 to a nad or 1 to AC? I know damage reduction is a 3.5 term, but it's analogous to temp HPs. On this path you generate them when you hit, not when you get hit, so unlike warlocks it's not like you need to go out of your way to generate piddly amount of temp HPs, this can be quite some serious damage reduction. It almost makes me think those extra 2 surges you get in this PP aren't as useful as they otherwise would be.  I'm wondering if saving all that damage in real HPs over the course of the day is worth a lot more than 2 surges, and if they'll end up getting used anyway.

2 extra surges are still useful, because it means you can heal yourself between encounters better, which frees up more Leader healing to go elsewhere.

Right now, I'm taking Lethal Hunter right at L16, just in time for it to grant me extra temps. I haven't found any other Quarry damage-boosting feat out there that I can grab (Hunter's Advantage is Elf-only, and it requires combat advantage), so this is about as high as it goes.

Was thinking about this today. If in actual play you find you have constant CA, Light Blade Expertise makes a Rapier nearly identical to Bastard Swords for this build. 2d8+3 vs 2d10+0 on 2[W] powers, which is mostly what the build has. 12 vs 11 average damage. The only two issues are the crit range, which recent CharOp discussions would indicate you need to add a relatively small amount of damage to compensate for. Or if you added one more to hit. Nimbe Blade, since we already assumed CA, is more DPR then critting. And you still have a feat to spare from not taking Bastard Sword Prof.

Second issue is Harmony Blade is Heavy Blade only. It'd require some changes in the equipment load-out. I have no suggestions.

Particularly for the Str/Dex builds though (Stormwarden) Rapier's with CA should just be straight up better for Rangers then Bastard Swords and if you aren't going Spiked Chain, which depending on what you'd MC into is also questionable compared to a Rapier if you're optimizing damage.

If you can get CA constantly, Rapiers rock the boat... until Epic Tier rolls along, and then you can't grab Weapon Mastery (which in this particular build, contributes more DPR than any other individual feat except Called Shot). The Mastery issue is mostly the problem, since for Rangers it does have a big impact - every Str/Dex Ranger loves his Rapiers/Spiked Chain.

LDB I just started this build at level 1 in LFR, but I've perused your Rangers for so long. Love what you do. A rather irrelevent question however, how do you get training in Heal between level 21 and 30?

That would be a holdover from a previous version. Thanks for the catch.

Not a problem. Rangers already get a a fair number of skills, 6 without multiclassing would make even Rogues begin to cry!

As an aside, seeing how using the blood fury dagger early would negate using your tattoo, how do you tactically manage the tattoo and the dagger?

It's basically one or the other, unfortunately. You can decide whether you can afford the nova bump action-wise (since it's 2 minors, which is something you may or may not be able to afford early in an encounter), or if you're willing to wait in order to get your extra attack, depending on the tactical situation. It's also good to pop the Knife's power if you know you'll get bloodied during your next turn (ongoing damage, zones, stuff like that).

Most helpful sir. Thanks so much, gotta love strikers that keep the party alive instead of the other way around!

Sorry to necro this, but I was playing it this week and found if you take the Baffling Cape +1, you get the Blade Dancer's +2AC vs OAs. Combined with Heavy Blade expertise, this is +4 while allows a great increase in mobility early on, which I found quite useful.

That's a decent pickup - I'll add that.

May 9, 2011 -- 8:09PM, zelink551 wrote:

Sorry to necro this, but I was playing it this week and found if you take the Baffling Cape +1, you get the Blade Dancer's +2AC vs OAs. Combined with Heavy Blade expertise, this is +4 while allows a great increase in mobility early on, which I found quite useful.

How is that pulled off, exactly?  I don't see anything about OA's on the Baffling Cape.

Its part of a set, the Blade Dancer's Regalia. If you have 2 items in the set, you get +AC to OA's= to the number of items in the set equipped. If you have the whole set, it lets you use your Quarry as a Minor Action. Its not a bad set on the whole, but the Bracers and Gloves are quickly overshadowed (esp for a striker), and the Cape isn't that great. Early on however, when most neck items are *meh*, an extra +2 AC to OA's is probably the best back for you buck.

Ahh, gotcha.  The Compendium doesn't list item sets so I didn't notice the connection when I searched the Cape.  When you mentioned Blade Dancer I was thinking of the PP, with it's +2 to AC/Ref for double-tapping enemies.

I may very well be missing something, but in your Encounter Novas, and perhaps Daily as well, at level 11 and beyond, you list three minor actions for setup, Quarry, Bloodfury weapon, and Shifting. It's a free action to drop the Drow Heavy Blade, but isn't it an additional minor to draw your weapon until you get a scabbard?

Yeah, you're right. I'll fix that.

Once you get at least a single scabbard it goes back to the same 2 minor requirement right? Since the property on the Scabbards lets you draw and attack?

Im sorry if this has been already answered but how are you getting battle clerics lore from the multiclass feet? the feet says you get healers lore.

(RAW/RAI?) You can swap out Healer's Lore and replace it with Battle Cleric's Lore. Can't be done with the CB (not a rules source) so needs to be done manually. My oppinion but not that of most others, check with your DM first.

I'm going off RAI and/or what the character bulder alows me to do and in both cases it seems imposable (and overpowered).

Jul 18, 2012 -- 12:35PM, blazeninja wrote:

I'm going off RAI and/or what the character bulder alows me to do and in both cases it seems imposable (and overpowered).

I don't want to start a debate about whethertoos and whyfores so go with your gut on this one. Hopefully sometime down the road there will be some sort of rules clarification on this matter.

i agree with you i hope they clerify it in some way and im sorry i wasnt trying to start a debate.

Jul 18, 2012 -- 1:24PM, blazeninja wrote:

i agree with you i hope they clerify it in some way and im sorry i wasnt trying to start a debate.

Mini ones just follow BCL questions around, no probs.

Sorry for the necro, but I recently revisited this post and noticed you changed it (swapped in Frost-cheese and Divine Healer).  My question is this:  How are you ignoring the two armor feats (chainmail and scalemail)?  As far as I know, taking a multiclass feat does not confer class armor proficiency.  Is there a recent (last two years) ruling that changed that?

Aug 12, 2012 -- 8:30AM, Necros99 wrote:

Sorry for the necro, but I recently revisited this post and noticed you changed it (swapped in Frost-cheese and Divine Healer).  My question is this:  How are you ignoring the two armor feats (chainmail and scalemail)?  As far as I know, taking a multiclass feat does not confer class armor proficiency.  Is there a recent (last two years) ruling that changed that?

The Battle Cleric's Lore alternate class feature replaces Healer's Lore and grants the armor proficiency and a +2 shield bonus to AC. Its from Dragon 400. 

Aug 12, 2012 -- 8:42AM, rjsilverthorn wrote:

Aug 12, 2012 -- 8:30AM, Necros99 wrote:

Sorry for the necro, but I recently revisited this post and noticed you changed it (swapped in Frost-cheese and Divine Healer).  My question is this:  How are you ignoring the two armor feats (chainmail and scalemail)?  As far as I know, taking a multiclass feat does not confer class armor proficiency.  Is there a recent (last two years) ruling that changed that?

The Battle Cleric's Lore alternate class feature replaces Healer's Lore and grants the armor proficiency and a +2 shield bonus to AC. Its from Dragon 400. 

I'm familiar with the various threads debating whether or not this works and I know that this forum is proceeding as though it does, but has there been any official word from Wizards about swapping out Healer's Lore for BCL?

Aug 12, 2012 -- 10:42AM, SpartanKillian wrote:

Aug 12, 2012 -- 8:42AM, rjsilverthorn wrote:

Aug 12, 2012 -- 8:30AM, Necros99 wrote:

Sorry for the necro, but I recently revisited this post and noticed you changed it (swapped in Frost-cheese and Divine Healer).  My question is this:  How are you ignoring the two armor feats (chainmail and scalemail)?  As far as I know, taking a multiclass feat does not confer class armor proficiency.  Is there a recent (last two years) ruling that changed that?

The Battle Cleric's Lore alternate class feature replaces Healer's Lore and grants the armor proficiency and a +2 shield bonus to AC. Its from Dragon 400. 

I'm familiar with the various threads debating whether or not this works and I know that this forum is proceeding as though it does, but has there been any official word from Wizards about swapping out Healer's Lore for BCL?

Nope and I wouldn't expect one at this point. They are largely focused on the next edition so I doubt we are going to see much in the way of clarifications. Honestly they were never very good about those all along.

Aug 12, 2012 -- 10:42AM, SpartanKillian wrote:

I'm familiar with the various threads debating whether or not this works and I know that this forum is proceeding as though it does, but has there been any official word from Wizards about swapping out Healer's Lore for BCL?

Are you also familiar with the various threads that have debated hundreds of other things, endlessly, that also had perfectly clear RAW answers? The existence of a debate is not an indication there isn't a right answer, it is an indication some people don't like the answer.

Aug 12, 2012 -- 12:38PM, Alcestis wrote:

Aug 12, 2012 -- 10:42AM, SpartanKillian wrote:

I'm familiar with the various threads debating whether or not this works and I know that this forum is proceeding as though it does, but has there been any official word from Wizards about swapping out Healer's Lore for BCL?

Are you also familiar with the various threads that have debated hundreds of other things, endlessly, that also had perfectly clear RAW answers? The existence of a debate is not an indication there isn't a right answer, it is an indication some people don't like the answer.

+1

I have a simular build. But I multiclass with monk and uses a Iron Body Ki. I'm the last man standing.

Jan 14, 2013 -- 5:39AM, Kees wrote:

I have a simular build. But I multiclass with monk and uses a Iron Body Ki. I'm the last man standing.

That would preclude you from using the Frost package, unless you are spamming frost whetstones.

Edit: Actually maybe not, forgot that the damage changing on a frost weapon is a power and not a property. 

And even without Frost cheese, The Iron Body Ki build is as Tanky as a barbarian with about the same average damage. Maybe that is not why you play a ranger, but It surely gives a nice tanky option besides the barbarian/avenger.

Jan 14, 2013 -- 5:39AM, Kees wrote:

I have a simular build. But I multiclass with monk and uses a Iron Body Ki. I'm the last man standing.

Forgive me if I misunderstand.  You are referring to using an Iron Body Ki Focus item?  

If I read this item correctly ("Property:  If you hit an opponent with an attack using this ki focus, you gain resistance to all of that target’s attacks equal to 2 + this implement’s enhancement bonus until the end of your next turn.") and look at the Monk description of Implement use ("When you wear or hold your ki focus, you can add its enhancement bonus to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of monk powers and monk paragon path powers that have the implement keyword") it would seem that you would not gain this property with Ranger attacks.  On top of that, you would lose the "Frost Cheese", since you can not use both an Implement AND a Weapon with an attack ("If you have both a magic ki focus and a magic weapon, you choose before you use an attack power whether to draw on the magic of the ki focus or the weapon. Your choice determines which enhancement bonus, critical hit effects, and magic item properties and powers you can apply to that power")

MC monk no longer gives all weapons as implements, but instead simply allows the use of the Ki Focus implement, which works on all weapon and implement attacks, witho0ut class restrictions.

Your info is out of date.

There's also a somewhat iffy argument that the Frost part of the frost weapon is not an enhancement bonus, critical hit effect or magic item property - it's a power - so a Ki Focussed Frost Weapon still makes everything with the Weapon keyword Cold.  You definitely wouldn't get Cold on Implement powers though.

I think the Iron Body Ki fits the theme of the "tanky ranger" very well, if you get frost cheese on top of that it would be great. I'm surprised I don't see it more often.

this build is awesome. clearly the best striker made by LDB

one question though

how can we make it more initiative optimized?

Opportunity cost seem prohibitive. You could grab impoved initiative or battlewise or both.

However, the build wasn't made to go first, I think it was made to be the last man standing. 

Mar 2, 2013 -- 8:06AM, Maxwell_Wolfen wrote:

this build is awesome. clearly the best striker made by LDB

one question though

how can we make it more initiative optimized?

Wood Elf. Sacrifices the overall durability but can get you some great initiative. Also opens up Sarifal FeyWarden to go with the Frost Package.

Wood elf, lol. Pretty sure LDB would have an opinion about giving up +1 to hit from starting Strength at 16 after racial adjustements.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 8:06AM, Maxwell_Wolfen wrote:

this build is awesome. clearly the best striker made by LDB

one question though

how can we make it more initiative optimized?

Switch Bastard Swords to Rapiers/Light Blade Expertise. It does mean the build needs to up the dex for when/if you hit 24th, but it essentially means the same damage and a free feat. Which can then be spent on Improved/Superior Initiative.

I was considering Two-Weapon Fighting, since it doesn't take any of the later feats and it doesn't seem to be serving as a pre-req for anything else in the build that I noticed.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 9:46AM, baldhermit wrote:

Wood elf, lol. Pretty sure LDB would have an opinion about giving up +1 to hit from starting Strength at 16 after racial adjustements.

18/10/15/10/15/8 @LvL 1.
21/11/16/11/18/9 @LvL 11.
And you have an great perception to use for your initiative.
Optimal? No.
Optional? Yes.

Mar 2, 2013 -- 8:14AM, baldhermit wrote:

Opportunity cost seem prohibitive. You could grab impoved initiative or battlewise or both.

However, the build wasn't made to go first, I think it was made to be the last man standing. 

curious because generally a striker in order to become effective needs to start first to take position or kill the hardest guy using his super dpr.. IMO

Well, you were of the opinion that this is the best striker LDB ever made. I do not have his builds memorised. Why don't you try and suggest some changes, on your own builder, and see if you like the result? LDB hadn't been around a while, and he's not the boss of you, so what's stopping you?

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:38PM, baldhermit wrote:

Well, you were of the opinion that this is the best striker LDB ever made. I do not have his builds memorised. Why don't you try and suggest some changes, on your own builder, and see if you like the result? LDB hadn't been around a while, and he's not the boss of you, so what's stopping you?

he is the best imo cause he combines the good of a striker with good defenses of a defender. no i dont have any experience in dnd 4 to suggest real and practical solutions. i dont demand to answer me. i just asked gently.

Well, in that case, can I suggest you find yourself a nice heroic game with a friendly DM, and take it from there?

Paragon, Epic tier, in my opinion, take some experience to do well.

LDB has not been around a while, so it may well be this character is not as optimal as possible, since some new feat or power could have been released since he wrote this. However, in heroic, initiative optimisation matters less, a lot of the advice on these boards matters less, because no one is fully optimised with only 4/5/6 feats. 

Mar 2, 2013 -- 3:48PM, baldhermit wrote:

Well, in that case, can I suggest you find yourself a nice heroic game with a friendly DM, and take it from there?

Paragon, Epic tier, in my opinion, take some experience to do well.

LDB has not been around a while, so it may well be this character is not as optimal as possible, since some new feat or power could have been released since he wrote this. However, in heroic, initiative optimisation matters less, a lot of the advice on these boards matters less, because no one is fully optimised with only 4/5/6 feats. 

the fact tha i dont have any experience in 4e or that i must play a low level game to learn doesnt mean that i dont want to see this build better at my opinion. you dont have to agree about initiative.

pity that ldb is not here to update his builds, they are the majority of the hall of heroes builds.