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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 2:15PM
#331
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This may have been covered already, but during the period where Katana were actually used as a weapon as opposed to a status symbol, the blade was actually just as long as that of an arming sword, and the handle much much longer.
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 2:58PM
#332
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2003
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Any ninja worth their salt wouldn't use a katana to do ninja-y things. Katanas are expensive and thus couldn't be causually tossed aside once a mission is over to avoid detection. They might carry them for subterfuge reasons, or because it's a sign of station (a lot of ninja came from a clan or two that had high-ranking positions and thus would carry the things people of such stations would carry day to day for fomalities). Ninja-to, if they ever existed, were probably lengths of cheap(ish) steel given a crude edge and made quickly so that its user wouldn't have a problem with ditching it in a pinch to stay alive. Spoiler:
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Yes, I totally know that's basically throwing chum in the water, here. 
Knowing is Half the Battle. The Other Half is VIOLENCE.
Imagine a lightsaber duel between Optimus Prime and Batman. You're welcome.
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 4:12PM
#333
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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Y'know, going back to the whole root of any of the "OMG History!" discussion... Earlier in the post, I with the critique of the Char Op forum, came up with the following stats. The katana counts as a 'versatile' hand-and-a-half lightblade.
Weapon Type: Katana Weapon Proficiency: +2 Weapon Damage: 1d10 Weapon Catagory: Superior Melee Weapon Weapon Group: Light Blade Weapon Property (Handedness): Versatile Weapon Property: High-Crit
These stats are reasonably useful
After going back to that thread and looking it over, I saw only one mechanical comment on those stats - which was not afterwards addressed. The comment there paralleled my own questions in this thread, specifically:
Moreover, if someone plans to treat the katana as if it is a heavy blade, then just use one of the many heavyblade weapon types that already exist:
You mean, as opposed to making it a Versatile Light Blade with a low hit bonus, making it utterly unappealing to every class that could concievably abuse it?
[Emphasis added.]
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Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us.
No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC).
(And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.) A Psion for Next (Playable Draft)A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)My 4e Projects
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 5:34PM
#334
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Well, I've been watching this for a bit and am ready to wade back in on a limited basis.
For the upteenth time, the katana and the longsword are very close to each other in terms of weight, balance, and use. Close enough that they belong in the same catergory.
Having said that, it doesn't mean a hill'o'beans in the game. The game is governed by it's own rules. In terms of the game, the best existing sword for the katana is the bastard sword, as the katana is the japanese hand-and-a-half.
I agree with greatfrito, it's time to take history out of the discussion. A light blade with a +2 bonus serves no one. Make it a heavy blade and build on that.
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 8:30PM
#335
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2005
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In my setting:
Katana Superior One-Handed Melee Weapon Group: Heavy Blade Proficiency: +3 Damage Die: 1d8 Properties: Versatile, Brutal 1
That said, katanas are not weapons my players will frequently be seeing, because in my current campaign, the art of making katanas has been lost for almost two centuries (the small island nation that produced them was destroyed by demons). Those that remain are very old, very rare, and are one of three things:
1. Infused with potent magic, such that they are naturally untouched by time, 2. Well-preserved and priceless antiques, which are unlikely to see action, or 3. In such poor repair as to be unfit for use
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 8:36PM
#336
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2010
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While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.
ungulateman
Leaders are fifth wheels - the steering one.
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 8:42PM
#337
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2005
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While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.
ungulateman
There may, indeed, not be any reason in your campaign. In fact, I would imagine that the typical D&D campaign has no need to address this issue at all, since katanas are not frequently in the predominantly European medieval fantasy genre.
However, I can think of a few setting-specific reasons why one would desire different, unique stats for a Katana, just as one would expect different, unique stats for any weapons so poetically evocative as this one. I have mine, but I doubt they would apply to anyone else's game.
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 8:59PM
#338
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While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.
ungulateman
There may, indeed, not be any reason in your campaign. In fact, I would imagine that the typical D&D campaign has no need to address this issue at all, since katanas are not frequently in the predominantly European medieval fantasy genre.
However, I can think of a few setting-specific reasons why one would desire different, unique stats for a Katana, just as one would expect different, unique stats for any weapons so poetically evocative as this one. I have mine, but I doubt they would apply to anyone else's game.
Oh, I can understand the desire, and frankly the 1d8 brutal 1 thing probably works OK. Its basically filling the same niche as the bastard sword and it would generally be a toss up which one a character would get more benefit from. I certainly wouldn't be horrified if those stats showed up on a katana in a supplement.
My concern with the light blade version is that simply put nobody outside of rogues has any reason to want to use light blades mechanically. A fighter or warlord COULD make use of such a weapon, but the feat support is inferior to the heavy blades and at the same time surpassing the rapier mechanically is just a gimme for rogues, who least of all martial classes says to me 'samurai'. Not that a samurai modeled as a rogue is inconceivable by any means, but it would seem very odd if this was the only sort of build that used a katana. Making it a bastard sword or a very close mechanical analog thereof puts it in the hands of exactly the classes most thematically appropriate. Fighters can wield one, warlords can easily do so as well, rogues can do so at a cost of 2 feats, and in fact most of your other weapon using classes can use it effectively as well.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 9:18PM
#339
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2005
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Oh, I can understand the desire, and frankly the 1d8 brutal 1 thing probably works OK. Its basically filling the same niche as the bastard sword and it would generally be a toss up which one a character would get more benefit from. I certainly wouldn't be horrified if those stats showed up on a katana in a supplement.
My concern with the light blade version is that simply put nobody outside of rogues has any reason to want to use light blades mechanically. A fighter or warlord COULD make use of such a weapon, but the feat support is inferior to the heavy blades and at the same time surpassing the rapier mechanically is just a gimme for rogues, who least of all martial classes says to me 'samurai'. Not that a samurai modeled as a rogue is inconceivable by any means, but it would seem very odd if this was the only sort of build that used a katana. Making it a bastard sword or a very close mechanical analog thereof puts it in the hands of exactly the classes most thematically appropriate. Fighters can wield one, warlords can easily do so as well, rogues can do so at a cost of 2 feats, and in fact most of your other weapon using classes can use it effectively as well.
And mechanics aside, a katana feels like a heavy blade. It has heft, and it has power behind it, much like any of the broad-bladed european swords, which are all heavy blades. That's why I categorize them as heavy blades, because of the feel, rather than because it's mechanically more appealing (although that's a good reason too). My experience with real-life katanas just says "heavy blade" to me.
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3 years ago ::
May 21, 2010 - 9:30PM
#340
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While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.
ungulateman
The longsword is probably a better option simply for accessibility. 'Warrior types' don't have to spend a feat to use a longsword correctly; as much as I hate the term, requiring a feat to use a 'katana' would amount to a feat tax on samurai.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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