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Locked: How to differentiate a katana and long sword?
3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 2:15PM #331
Kruxe
Date Joined: Aug 6, 2004
Posts: 131
This may have been covered already, but during the period where Katana were actually used as a weapon as opposed to a status symbol, the blade was actually just as long as that of an arming sword, and the handle much much longer. 
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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 2:58PM #332
scylis
Date Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 1,787
Any ninja worth their salt wouldn't use a katana to do ninja-y things. Katanas are expensive and thus couldn't be causually tossed aside once a mission is over to avoid detection. They might carry them for subterfuge reasons, or because it's a sign of station (a lot of ninja came from a clan or two that had high-ranking positions and thus would carry the things people of such stations would carry day to day for fomalities).

Ninja-to, if they ever existed, were probably lengths of cheap(ish) steel given a crude edge and made quickly so that its user wouldn't have a problem with ditching it in a pinch to stay alive.

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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 4:12PM #333
greatfrito
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Y'know, going back to the whole root of any of the "OMG History!" discussion...

May 18, 2010 -- 7:14AM, Haldrik wrote:

Earlier in the post, I with the critique of the Char Op forum, came up with the following stats. The katana counts as a 'versatile' hand-and-a-half lightblade.

   Weapon Type: Katana
   Weapon Proficiency: +2
   Weapon Damage: 1d10
   Weapon Catagory: Superior Melee Weapon
   Weapon Group: Light Blade
   Weapon Property (Handedness): Versatile
   Weapon Property: High-Crit

These stats are reasonably useful




After going back to that thread and looking it over, I saw only one mechanical comment on those stats - which was not afterwards addressed.  The comment there paralleled my own questions in this thread, specifically:

May 13, 2010 -- 3:18PM, mplindustries wrote:

May 13, 2010 -- 1:52PM, Haldrik wrote:

Moreover, if someone plans to treat the katana as if it is a heavy blade, then just use one of the many heavyblade weapon types that already exist:


You mean, as opposed to making it a Versatile Light Blade with a low hit bonus, making it utterly unappealing to every class that could concievably abuse it?



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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 5:34PM #334
T-Mack
Date Joined: Jul 2, 2008
Posts: 1,303
Well, I've been watching this for a bit and am ready to wade back in on a limited basis.

For the upteenth time, the katana and the longsword are very close to each other in terms of weight, balance, and use.  Close enough that they belong in the same catergory.

Having said that, it doesn't mean a hill'o'beans in the game.  The game is governed by it's own rules.  In terms of the game, the best existing sword for the katana is the bastard sword, as the katana is the japanese hand-and-a-half.

I agree with greatfrito, it's time to take history out of the discussion.  A light blade with a +2 bonus serves no one.  Make it a heavy blade and build on that.
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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 8:30PM #335
Novacat
Date Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Posts: 8,741
In my setting:

Katana
Superior One-Handed Melee Weapon
Group: Heavy Blade
Proficiency: +3
Damage Die: 1d8
Properties: Versatile, Brutal 1

That said, katanas are not weapons my players will frequently be seeing, because in my current campaign, the art of making katanas has been lost for almost two centuries (the small island nation that produced them was destroyed by demons). Those that remain are very old, very rare, and are one of three things:

1. Infused with potent magic, such that they are naturally untouched by time,
2. Well-preserved and priceless antiques, which are unlikely to see action, or
3. In such poor repair as to be unfit for use
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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 8:36PM #336
ungulateman
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2010
Posts: 85
While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.

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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 8:42PM #337
Novacat
Date Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Posts: 8,741

May 21, 2010 -- 8:36PM, ungulateman wrote:

While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.

ungulateman



There may, indeed, not be any reason in your campaign. In fact, I would imagine that the typical D&D campaign has no need to address this issue at all, since katanas are not frequently in the predominantly European medieval fantasy genre.

However, I can think of a few setting-specific reasons why one would desire different, unique stats for a Katana, just as one would expect different, unique stats for any weapons so poetically evocative as this one. I have mine, but I doubt they would apply to anyone else's game.

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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 8:59PM #338
AbdulAlhazred
Date Joined: Jan 9, 2009
Posts: 10,250

May 21, 2010 -- 8:42PM, Novacat wrote:

May 21, 2010 -- 8:36PM, ungulateman wrote:

While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.

ungulateman



There may, indeed, not be any reason in your campaign. In fact, I would imagine that the typical D&D campaign has no need to address this issue at all, since katanas are not frequently in the predominantly European medieval fantasy genre.

However, I can think of a few setting-specific reasons why one would desire different, unique stats for a Katana, just as one would expect different, unique stats for any weapons so poetically evocative as this one. I have mine, but I doubt they would apply to anyone else's game.




Oh, I can understand the desire, and frankly the 1d8 brutal 1 thing probably works OK. Its basically filling the same niche as the bastard sword and it would generally be a toss up which one a character would get more benefit from. I certainly wouldn't be horrified if those stats showed up on a katana in a supplement.

My concern with the light blade version is that simply put nobody outside of rogues has any reason to want to use light blades mechanically. A fighter or warlord COULD make use of such a weapon, but the feat support is inferior to the heavy blades and at the same time surpassing the rapier mechanically is just a gimme for rogues, who least of all martial classes says to me 'samurai'. Not that a samurai modeled as a rogue is inconceivable by any means, but it would seem very odd if this was the only sort of build that used a katana. Making it a bastard sword or a very close mechanical analog thereof puts it in the hands of exactly the classes most thematically appropriate. Fighters can wield one, warlords can easily do so as well, rogues can do so at a cost of 2 feats, and in fact most of your other weapon using classes can use it effectively as well.

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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 9:18PM #339
Novacat
Date Joined: Mar 29, 2005
Posts: 8,741

May 21, 2010 -- 8:59PM, AbdulAlhazred wrote:

Oh, I can understand the desire, and frankly the 1d8 brutal 1 thing probably works OK. Its basically filling the same niche as the bastard sword and it would generally be a toss up which one a character would get more benefit from. I certainly wouldn't be horrified if those stats showed up on a katana in a supplement.

My concern with the light blade version is that simply put nobody outside of rogues has any reason to want to use light blades mechanically. A fighter or warlord COULD make use of such a weapon, but the feat support is inferior to the heavy blades and at the same time surpassing the rapier mechanically is just a gimme for rogues, who least of all martial classes says to me 'samurai'. Not that a samurai modeled as a rogue is inconceivable by any means, but it would seem very odd if this was the only sort of build that used a katana. Making it a bastard sword or a very close mechanical analog thereof puts it in the hands of exactly the classes most thematically appropriate. Fighters can wield one, warlords can easily do so as well, rogues can do so at a cost of 2 feats, and in fact most of your other weapon using classes can use it effectively as well.



And mechanics aside, a katana feels like a heavy blade. It has heft, and it has power behind it, much like any of the broad-bladed european swords, which are all heavy blades. That's why I categorize them as heavy blades, because of the feel, rather than because it's mechanically more appealing (although that's a good reason too). My experience with real-life katanas just says "heavy blade" to me.

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3 years ago  ::  May 21, 2010 - 9:30PM #340
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,524

May 21, 2010 -- 8:36PM, ungulateman wrote:

While everyone is going to have an opinion of their own on this, I see no reason to make a katana anything more than a re-fluffed bastard sword, or if they're very common in your setting (sort of a pulp-Asiatic theme?), a longsword.

ungulateman




The longsword is probably a better option simply for accessibility.  'Warrior types' don't have to spend a feat to use a longsword correctly; as much as I hate the term, requiring a feat to use a 'katana' would amount to a feat tax on samurai.

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