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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 10:13AM
#1
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This question arises after the nerf to Healer's Lore and Healer's Implement in today's errata.
A power that says "the target regains hit points equal to its healing surge value" clearly no longer gets a bonus from Healer's Lore and Healer's Implement.
However, if a power has "the target regains hit points as if it had spent a healing surge," do they get the same bonus HP they would for actually spending a surge?
On a similar note but not related to today's errata, would the bonus from a Belt of Mountain Endurance apply to such powers? The belt's property reads as:
Property: When you spend a healing surge, you can add your Strength modifier to the surge value.
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 10:22AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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I suspect that with the errata you are not in fact supposed to be able to use healer's lore with CLWs and other similiar powers with that wording. That said, it think it's silly and I will continue to do so in my games.
-Polaris
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 10:40AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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Yes, it still applies. Everything and anything that would add to the healing if you had actually spent a healing surge applies to Cure Light Wounds etc. Otherwise it wouldn't be as if you had spent a healing surge.
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 11:06AM
#4
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Yes, it still applies. Everything and anything that would add to the healing if you had actually spent a healing surge applies to Cure Light Wounds etc. Otherwise it wouldn't be as if you had spent a healing surge.
I disagree. It specifies in the update "When you let a creature spend a healing surge", which seems to very clearly require that the creatue be able to spend a healing surge. "As if" is the exact opposite of spending a healing surge, namely, not spending a healing surge.
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 11:18AM
#5
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But then why say "as if," instead of "equal to your healing surge value,"? I've always treated the "as if," clauses in D&D the same as actually doing the thing they are "as if,"-ing. If that makes grammatical sense. When you use a power "as if," it were a MBA you can use it in place of all instances of a MBA, right? Now, it doesn't trigger things which key off of using an MBA, because it is not the power "Melee Basic Attack," but... I dunno. If it's truly that limited then Healer's Mercy becomes far, far less useful than it was for no good reason.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards."
~ yesnomu
"Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless."
~ SanityFaerie
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 11:20AM
#6
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I disagree. It specifies in the update "When you let a creature spend a healing surge", which seems to very clearly require that the creatue be able to spend a healing surge. "As if" is the exact opposite of spending a healing surge, namely, not spending a healing surge.
I agree. The extra healing is based on you letting them spend a surge. Whether they are spending a surge or just gaining HP as if they had spent one is irrelevant. If your power does not let them spend a surge, they cannot get the extra healing. I don't think there are any powers worded like "The target regains hit points as if you let them spend a healing surge", but if there are maybe those powers would get extra healing.
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 11:24AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Here is a WOTC_GregB saying you don't get to use healer's lore for powers like cure light wounds when I asked him in another thread.
my handbooks & builds
Show
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 11:55AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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You have to get it. Otherwise it isn't as if you spent a healing surge. If you don't get all the bonuses that you would get if you spent a healing surge, it isn't as if you spent a healing surge, and the universe implodes in an illogic loop.
If you spent the healing surge, what would you get? That is exactly what "as if" means.
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 12:00PM
#9
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You have to get it. Otherwise it isn't as if you spent a healing surge. If you don't get all the bonuses that you would get if you spent a healing surge, it isn't as if you spent a healing surge, and the universe implodes in an illogic loop.
If you spent the healing surge, what would you get? That is exactly what "as if" means.
I see your argument more clearly now, however, I still disagree with it. I think the problem in your argument is that you seem to be looking at it more from the perspective of the person who would be using the surge as opposed to the perspective of the cleric using the power.
To clarify, the PC getting healing 'as if' they had spent a healing surge is eligible for whatever powers/abilities/feats that apply to healing surges, I think?, however from the perspective of applying the Cleric's bonuses that power does not actually allow the PC to use a healing surge.
I'm not entirely comfortable with my use of language above but does that at least elucidate the point I am trying to make?
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3 years ago ::
May 04, 2010 - 12:11PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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Not really. All that matters is from the perspective of the person spending the healing surge. How many hit points would they get if they spent the surge? They get exactly that many, or else "as if" is not true.
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