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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:17AM
#171
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2009
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As stated earlier by other people as well, luckbenders says reroll one damage die and not a single dice. One mordenkrad damage die is 2d6 so it would reroll the 2d6 and not 1d6. Sneak Attack is like weapon damage in that it says sneak attack damage and never refers to the dice in the definition.
It does say that it increases damage as you level up. Weapon damage also increases as the size of the die goes up so even though a number of dice is defined, its still a single damage roll. Hence 1 sneak attack damage roll is 1[3d6] like 1 mordenkrad damage roll is 1[2d6]. Hence luckbenders rerolls 1 damage roll does apply per the CSR's reply to both equally.
This would also apply to Hunters Quarry.
By the way Luckbenders:
Power (Encounter): Free Action. Use this power after you make a damage roll for a melee weapon attack. Reroll one damage die, using the second result even if it’s lower.
This is good for an attack on a Rogue or A Paladin that has a mordenkrad. It says 1 damage die, so a 3[W] attack rerolls one of the 3 sets of 2d6 or a sneak attack of [3d6] for the rogue. This makes sense to me.
Luckbenders 16th level,
Power (Encounter): Free Action. Use this power after you make a damage roll for a melee weapon attack. Reroll any two damage die, using the second result even if it’s lower.
This is good for an attack on a Rogue or A Paladin that has a mordenkrad. It says 2 damage die, so a 3[W] attack rerolls two of the 3 sets of 2d6 or a sneak attack of [3d6] and one weapon damage roll for the rogue. This makes sense to me.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:22AM
#172
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As stated earlier by other people as well, luckbenders says reroll one damage die and not a single dice.
First: "die" is singular. "dice" is plural. You're using the words BACKWARDS, and reaching an incorrect conclusion because of it. "Single dice" is a completely nonsensical phrase.
Second: Luckbender does not say "one weapon" - "one weapon" is [W], and can sometimes technically be 2 or 3 or even 4 dice. It says when you roll damage, reroll ONE DIE.
One die.
Not "two dice".
Not "all dice from one source"
One, single solitary die.
Customer Service says otherwise because they are wrong, and this is not surprising in the slightest. Customer Service are *usually* wrong.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:34AM
#173
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2003
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As stated earlier by other people as well, luckbenders says reroll one damage die and not a single dice.
First: "die" is singular. "dice" is plural. You're using the words BACKWARDS, and reaching an incorrect conclusion because of it. "Single dice" is a completely nonsensical phrase.
Second: Luckbender does not say "one weapon" - "one weapon" is [W], and can sometimes technically be 2 or 3 or even 4 dice. It says when you roll damage, reroll ONE DIE.
One die.
Not "two dice".
Not "all dice from one source"
One, single solitary die.
Customer Service says otherwise because they are wrong, and this is not surprising in the slightest. Customer Service are *usually* wrong.
I think when Cust Serv updates their answer we'll see that:
One die = one die unless it's 1[W], in which case the 2 dice you roll for 1[W] count as it it were only one die rolled.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:35AM
#174
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2009
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Damage die "singular" of a mordenkrad is [w] = [2d6].
From the compendium and posted by another person here not me:
Each size category larger than Medium increases the weapon’s damage die by one size.
One-Handed
1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10
Damage die, a signle damage die 1[w] of a mordenkrad is 1[2d6]. It is hard to refute that. I can't and I am a pain in the ass when it comes to rules. I also said the same thing as you but got shot down several pages ago. I am only saying I thought the same but was shown I was in error and now CSR says the same as what they were saying... One damage die *singular* can be made up of more then one physical dice. Luckbenders says damage die and thus a reroll of mordenkrad damage is [2d6] and Sneak Attack Damage damage die is [3d6]. Just restating what others have said about the mordenkrad and what CSR also confirmed but also included Sneak Attack.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:40AM
#175
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Damage die "singular" of a mordenkrad is [w] = [2d6].
From the compendium and posted by another person here not me:
Each size category larger than Medium increases the weapon’s damage die by one size.
One-Handed
1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10
Damage die, a signle damage die 1[w] of a mordenkrad is 1[2d6]. It is hard to refute that. I can't and I am a pain in the ass when it comes to rules. I also said the same thing as you but got shot down several pages ago. I am only saying I thought the same but was shown I was in error and now CSR says the same as what they were saying... One damage die *singular* can be made up of more then one physical dice. Luckbenders says damage die and thus a reroll of mordenkrad damage is [2d6] and Sneak Attack Damage damage die is [3d6]. Just restating what others have said about the mordenkrad and what CSR also confirmed but also included Sneak Attack.
It is possible that it is intended that "one die" include "1[W]" when W is more than one die, in this case, because that's "one Weapon die" and the fact of the specific instance of "weapon die" being multiple physical dice is
It is NOT possible that "3d6" from Sneak Attack be considered one die.
Customer service *are wrong*, which is the usual way this works. Stop citing them as if they knew what they are talking about - they don't understand now, they never do, and they probably never will.
If you think you have an argument, make the argument and cite the rules. Citing Customer Service is meaningless.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:48AM
#176
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2009
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SNEAK ATTACK
Once per round, when you have combat advantage against an enemy and hit that enemy with an attack that uses a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling, the attack deals extra damage. If you have dealt Sneak Attack damage since the start of your turn, you cannot deal it again until the start of your next turn. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. As you advance in level, your extra damage increases.
Level 1-10 2d6 -> level 11-20 3d6 -> level 21-30 5d6
looks like a progression seen here with the difference being level vs weapon size:
One-Handed
1d4 -> 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 1d12 -> 2d6 -> 2d8 -> 2d10
Sneak attack never refers to anything other then a damage roll. So it would be writting out as #[w]+[SA]+STR+Bonuses+Bonuses+etc.
Sneak attack is extra damage, but it is a *singular* Sneak Attack Damage roll same as a weapon damage roll again singular can be #[2d6] for a mordenkrad.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:56AM
#177
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It's not the presence of a progression chart that makes it possible to argue that "one weapon die" be treated as "one die" despite technically being 2-4 dice. It's the fact that despite being 2d6 or 3d10, it is still 1[W].
Sneak Attack is never "one extra damage die" that happens to instantiate as two dice. Ditto Hunter's Quarry at 11+.
In the end, Luckbender allows the reroll of ONE DIE. There is an argument to be made that [W] allows a specific exception and that 1[W] might be able to be called "one die" regardless of how many dice it contains. No such argument or exception exists for any other multi-die sources.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 11:03AM
#178
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2006
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[
It is NOT possible that "3d6" from Sneak Attack be considered one die.
It is POSSIBLE that 3d6 is one damage die for paragon-level sneak attack since the term "damage die" is not defined in the rules except for weapons (where is can be multiple physical dice).
There was another thread a few weeks ago taking about whether magic missle had a "damage die" of 2d4 or d4.
I would rule that MM had a damage die of 2d4 and SA had a damage die d6, but RAW or RAI are both unclear IMO.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 11:12AM
#179
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Date Joined:
Sep 15, 2006
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The wording of the Backstabber feat does argue for SA to have a damage die of of a single d6 since it refers to dice instead of die.
Backstabber Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Rogue, Sneak Attack class feature
Benefit: The extra damage dice from your Sneak Attack class feature increase from d6s to d8s.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 28, 2010 - 11:19AM
#180
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2009
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I think it may end up a circular argument since even with Brutal it refers to rerolling any die that doesn't meet the requirement for brutal rating. So it tarets a single d6 in a mordenkrad. The Backstabber feat can also represent that the 'damage' declared in the definition of Sneak Attack is made up of d6 dice and those dice are upgraded to d8's... Again I was on the fence for 1[SA] vs #[d6] depending on level, but thought it was a logical conclusion to draw on. And the CSR did state it and from my understanding this ruling from the CSR will make its way to future errattas and rule updatings so it does make a precedance... Again from my understanding of the situation. You can take it or leave it honestly to each their own.
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