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3 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2010 - 6:04PM
#21
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2001
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I haven't vanished everyone. Thanks for lots of input. I've been busy and trying to take a moment to write something worth reading. I'd like to restate I'm not out to play fanboy and make all the OA stuff better. my true goal is to capture the feel.
Katana - lots of good ideas. this one has always left people divided. Maybe the same stats as a bastard sword is the best starter and then have feats that allow for school variance .
I do like the idea of making it a two-weapon sword. I had a crazy idea of making it +3 d12 "balanced" This weapon is designed to be used two-handed and is most effective this way. However it's superior craftsmanship allows it to be wielded one-handed. When using it one handed the stats are reduced to +2 and d10.
again just a thought to ponder.
The Wakizashi seems so similar to the katana that I would like to make it a smaller superior weapon rather than military. Superior in many ways helps to express the quality and cost as well as stats. Is there a way to make better than the short sword without making it better than the rapier? +3 prof, 1d8, off-hand is already better.
Question for those that know. Wakizashi = Versatile? seems I can hold it two-handed?
Wish I had more time. Keep the ideas coming with weapons and build and i'll try more again soon. thanks
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3 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2010 - 8:12PM
#22
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I would make the Katana a longsword simply because all the classes that seem like they could easily be called Samurai are already proficient with it (AFAIK, all the classes I mentioned in post #2 are proficient with military melee weapons), thus you don't need a feat to use it. Wakizashi, of course, is a short sword.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2010 - 10:26PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2003
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The wakizashi was rarely used in combat. It was the honor blade, reserved for nobility. A wakizashi, for example, was the blade one commited seppuku with.
Niten "Two Swords Falling From Heaven"" style, developed my Musashi, was the style of fighting with katana and wakizashi. It was considered very unorthodox.
Most wielders used a katana two-handed, although it was small enough to be wielded 1 handed.
This was why the 3e mechanics for katana were so perfect. Since it was essentially a Bastard Sword mechanically, it was an exotic 1 handed weapon, but could be used two-handed as a Martial one. Samurai did not recieve proficiency in the katana, but they were proficient in all martil weapons, so they could wield it 2 handed without penalty.
There was a feat in 3e Rokugan (L5R) for bushi of the Dragon Clan, who fought using Niten style. It counted as Weapon Prof. (Bastard Sword, Ambidexterity, and Two-Weapon Fighting only for purposes of fighting with Katana in one hand Wakizashi in the other.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2010 - 10:35PM
#24
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I do like the idea of making it a two-weapon sword. I had a crazy idea of making it +3 d12 "balanced" This weapon is designed to be used two-handed and is most effective this way. However it's superior craftsmanship allows it to be wielded one-handed. When using it one handed the stats are reduced to +2 and d10.
very good idea. unique & balanced. I like it.
The Wakizashi seems so similar to the katana that I would like to make it a smaller superior weapon rather than military. Superior in many ways helps to express the quality and cost as well as stats. Is there a way to make better than the short sword without making it better than the rapier? +3 prof, 1d8, off-hand is already better.
a keyword?
but I think:
- tanto = dagger
- wakasashi = supperiour dagger (equivalent with short sword)
- kodachi = somewhat between short and longsword
- katana = bteween longsword and twohander
Question for those that know. Wakizashi = Versatile? seems I can hold it two-handed?
I woudn't do that. the kodachi (the off hand sword in kendo's kata 8, 9 and 10) isn't used two handed, and the wakasashi is usually even shorter. With an average of 50cm (20in), the wakizashi is considered a companion sword to the katana.
looking at it, I don't see how you could wield it two handed
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3 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2010 - 3:46PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2001
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Thanks Cube
Anyone else like the idea? Or should we keep it a bastard sword with maybe samaria weapon talents to improve it?
Chiba_Monkey
Thanks for the info.
I was looking at a cheap blade I had when I asked about it being two handed. seems the hilt was very long on that one. However when I looked at the better made Wakizashi I agree it's clearly one handed only.
Sticking with Samaria questions
I like to create new stuff but 4e makes that really hard. Part of me wants to make this a whole new class with lots of builds representing different schools. Trouble is much of the class would be very similar to the fighter. Is there a way to make a fighter build that provided enough?
Trade Fighter Weapon Talent for gaining the Katana as a weapon and maybe a bit more to flavor things? Or is that already too much? Could the Samaria package force the player to use the first feat as an additional payment for the benefits?
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3 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2010 - 3:52PM
#26
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Part of me wants to make this a whole new class with lots of builds representing different schools.
Again, this is solved very easily by letting someone be whatever class they want and simply have Samurai (and it's spelled SAMURAI, btw, not Samaria) be a title. There's no reason to re-invent the wheel.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2010 - 4:23PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2007
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I'd really rather have the Katana be it's own sword, I like that idea that it's a two handed weapon, but can be used one handed, and it probably needs it's own property to stand out properly. I do like that property that you mentioned. You could just drop the proficiency by 1, instead of doing both. That alone drops the damage, since you'd be hitting about 5% less of the time. It's kinda a reverse versatile. Though think about the possibility of a ranger and twin strike with two katana.
It's a lot better to make Samurai either a title or a Multi-class feat progression. I'd suggest a multi-class feat progression for various styles or schools. Then maybe paragon paths to completely flesh out the clans, styles, schools, whatever. While I don't completely agree with Salla, it's much better to do it that way with specific feat progressions, and Paragon paths, than making a completely new class that is better represented with current base classes. So you can have a musashi style samurai with the two blade as a ranger, but have weapon or style feats that emulate the style you want with it.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 24, 2010 - 3:58AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2001
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Salla
Thanks for the spelling correction. I should have looked again. I'm normally complaining that Sorcerer isn't spelled with an o.
Ceiling90
The Ranger thought and the reverse Versitile idea kinda is why I dropped the dmg as well as the Prof. Perhaps it is too much or perhaps there could be another feat that allowed for better one handed use.
Both of you and Samuria title
This makes sense because I do like the archery and TWF of the ranger for some options.
Well I'm heading out of two for the weekend. I'll see what I can dream up for when I return.
Had I gone with a fighter build for the Samuria I was wondering if 4e standards would except a build that removed shield use as part of the package? It seems most builds don't mess with certain parts of the class. Can anyone see this as being an option for build building? just curious as a side question.
I'd love to see the Duelist Rogue and get ideas on how to build a feat path that does what we want.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 24, 2010 - 4:26AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2003
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2-Weapon Ranger builds work well, as do Tempest Fighter Builds, for Niten style Samurai.
Great Weapon Fighter builds work for more traditional Samurai fighting styles, and keeps the Samurai in line with your view as a defender. A Warlord build could work, and taking some pages out of Martial power 2, you could develop a warlord build that perhaps sacrifices proficiency with shields for something else. Better armor proficiency, perhaps? And, of course, the Samurai could be an archer. While Archer Ranger builds would be fine, it still puts the samurai in hide armor, something I don't personally agree with. HOWEVER, I think the Archer Warlord from Martial Power 2 is perfect. He gets better armor, no shields, uses a bow, and is still STR based.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 24, 2010 - 10:31AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2007
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So I was looking through the books, and I'm still contemplating a good rendition of a Katana. From what I saw, looking through the PHB1, Adventurers Vault, Eberron Players Guide...
It could be:
Katana: Superior Two-handed Melee Weapon
+3 Prof
1d10 damage
Price: ?
Weight: 8lb
Heavy Blade
Properties: High Crit, Balanced
New Property: Balanced
This property allows the wielder to use the weapon with one hand, but in doing so, the weapon only has +2 proficiency bonus.
I really like the property you were thinking about. And this is much like a Bastard Sword.. only backwards? It really make the weapon stand out more; though I'm not sure it's better than a Bastard Sword either. It's quite difficult to make it like the 3e counterpart, since there's no real penalties for using a weapon you're not proficient with, you just don't gain bonuses. The closest thing I can think of that, since you gotta spend a feat is use a great sword, then make a Greatsword training feat that allows for one handed usage and the High Crit property. But I'd really rather have it as it's own weapon.
Also, as for the lack of.. starting with it, you could always allow it as background perk for being a Samurai background. The prof with a katana.
What types of styles and schools do you think you want to have in the conversion, or rendition, or whatever, that base class builds don't already have? There has to be a few.
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