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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 3:33PM
#21
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So, after reading the thread, you wanted to use a power with your level one monk that you think should allow you to create an infinite damage loop?
And if that's correct, you want us to think that the makers of the game intended a level 1 power to do that?
And so you think because a RPGA DM wouldn't allow that, he house ruled it?
Life's unfair, right?
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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 3:41PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2009
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Where do these quotes come from?
The RPGA CCG, page 11.
It should be noted, by the way, that even if an RPGA DM was completely required to allow you to use even the most absurd of interpretations, that doesn't really matter in this instance: D&D Encounter isn't an RPGA event. Rather, both D&DE and RPGA are part of the D&D Organized Play division.
The RPGA rules indicate that D&D encounters is considered part of RPGA, don't they?
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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 4:19PM
#23
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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I'm a big fan of RPGA DMs not changing RAW. But, this is a case where the reality of the bounds on how a power should work is absurdly clear. No designer intends for a power to do infinite damage. Any DM, RPGA or otherwise, should make a call that this doesn't work. It isn't an interpretation. It is just common rules logic. In fact, every player should make that call too.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 4:25PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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Assuming BGibbons quotes are accurate I'll respond with "I'm with him."
Ditto
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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 4:32PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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he "cannot make up new D&D rules wherein an existing rule will suffice." It's the DM's job to adjudicate things "when the rules are unclear or to keep play moving."
These two rules right here are enough to explain why the OP is upset. There is an existing rule, and the rule is clear, and if he hadn't changed the rule play would have moved along just fine. It's just a broken power. Until RPGA adds a rule that says "the DM is free to make up new D&D rules when the power is broken", the DM broke the rules that the players come to the table expecting to see in play.
That said ... more power to him. CharOpd characters that use rules loopholes to become godly are the bane of RPGA play IMO, and I love it when DMs bust the RPGA rules to stymie them.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 4:39PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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D&D's not a video game? That's unpossible!
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 4:39PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2003
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so i created a lvl 1 human monk for the RPGA undermountain mods and i choose harmonious thunder for obvious reasons. until it gets erratad its an instagib, i figured i could get away with using it at an event because they play raw, no house rules. so in the campaign he threw the bbeg at us so i poped HT and an action point to attack again for the instagib and he house ruled on the spot the damage can only bounce from melee or ranged attacks, house ruled me! At a published event!
am i mad for no reason or is this wrong?
Hmmm....
Daily Implement, Psionic, Thunder Standard Action Melee touch Target: One or two creatures Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude Hit: 3d6 + Dexterity modifier thunder damage. Miss: Half damage. Effect: When one of the targets takes damage, the other target takes thunder damage equal to your Strength modifier. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter or until one of the targets drops to 0 hit points. Seems clear enough. When you damage one target, the other takes thunder damage equal to STR modifier. So, a reasonable interpretation would be: 1. Hit critter 1. Also damage critter 2. 2. Hit critter 2. Also damage critter 1. This would follow RAW - it's not the only interpretation, of course, but it is legitimate as a reading of RAW. If this was what you ended up being able to do, then the DM is correct.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 15, 2010 - 9:04PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2007
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*rolls on the floor in laughter*
hahahahaha!
..
Oh wait you weren't joking?
..
*laughs harder*
If I were you I would be ashamed to play D&D.
Go play Star Wars RPG, where breaking the game is just a matter of saying "I've got a bad feeling about this..."
::EDIT:: For the purposes of making this post not blatantly flammatory, I agree with all the sane people who think that even expecting this to have worked for a fraction of a second is ridiculous.
My Mafia No Lie Policy. Talking about the Tomb of Horrors. Previously Run Games
Show
Quotes I liked
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dude, zinger, you are awesome.
yeah.
Zinger . . . 10/90 - If he bussed his don as a scum rolename cop while faux dug his grave attacking the claimed cop d1... well, if he fooled us all to lylo he deserves to win.
Zinger was the star of that game, don't you deny it
Soon is a funny creature with a highly variable pupal state, after which it becomes the beautiful creature known as now. Sometimes this metamophosis takes as little as a day, and sometimes it takes several months. Occasionally, the creature enters hybernation after chrysalis begins, and it may be several seasons before the metamorphosis is complete. Occassionally, the creature dies while in the pupal state without warning, and waiting for now to emerge becomes a lesson in futility. This is also seen in the creature known as later, and waiting for both soon and later to become now can be a frustrating process.
Knowing is Half the Battle. The Other Half is VIOLENCE!
Imagine a lightsaber duel between Optimus Prime and Batman. You're welcome.
Will add that I think Zinger is just a new 'type' of mafia player that doesn't really play by our standards and therefor still leaning towards town for now based on the way he plays in other games and it's seemingly the same (and I can't really see him as scum in all of them).
.45 magnum + bullet + computer screen = problem solved
Best Death-Post Ever by ProphetKing
Show
The sun rises – and then is blown away by the fierce wind.
All over the world, dark clouds cover the sky. The atmosphere is covered in a dark iron curtain of cumulus. Thunder pours from the sky as if it mere rain and it hails daggers onto the ground. The people hide in fear, of whatever ungodly evil has been summoned by some fool.
The Great Guardian of the Sky, RAYQUAZA, has been summoned.
And he has come for Silly Dragons!
(Right Click - > View)
RAYQUAZAAMEN.png
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Silly lay dead, once known in life as James, Town Aligned.
Now that Silly is dead, there is a calm. Once again all is right with the Heavens above.
But on Earth violence remains. King of Dominaria weeps over the loss of the one of his heart. He decides to end it all. He grabs an Arbok and shoves it onto it his neck. “BITE ME – END ME!” The snake does as asked and fills KoD with an exotic, incurable venom. He collapses.
Enraged and vicious, the snake systematically begins killing KoD’s poke’mon. Gengar and Beedrill are brutally slaughtered in an attempt to fight back. Skitty wisely tries to run away, but is easily taken out after Ekans discovers an underground gopher hole to pop out of. With great wide unhinged jaws, the snake swallows Skitty whole.
In great sorrow after the death of his owner, Silly, Wailord begins to look for his own lover – Skitty. It is a little known fact but whales and cats actually can interbreed in the pokemon world. Here is a graphic image illustrating this relationship.
Spoiler:
Show
Wailord_X_Skitty_by_YellerCrakka1.jpg
At noticing the scent of Skitty in the vicious Arbok, Wailord goes nuts. He begins flopping around on the land and foaming from the mouth. He turns into some kind of suicide berserker and just throws his body haphazardly into anything. Mountains are crushed, caves are demolished, the earth is sundered. And Arbok is turned into a purple fruit roll up.
Meanwhile, KoD is suddenly feeling better! “I must have a natural immunity to snake poison or something. Wow…that was certainly sad and all, but y’know, I don’t think I’ll kill my – OH MY GOD IT’S A GIANT STAMPEDING WHALE!”
It was like dropping the Moon onto an ant. KoD never stood a chance.
…wait, maybe he did! The blowhole! KoD managed to become a modern day Jonah and avoid certain dead by smashing. He begins to live inside the whale itself, starting a farming community on the great beasts tongue. Mostly living out of self grown mushrooms plucked from his own horribly unhygienic body and drinking whale saliva to survive, KoD is…well, still suicidal. But clinging onto life.
However, one day the great beast yawns. KoD tumbles back into the digestive system. His skin is flayed away by acid. Miraculously, he survives as some kind of horrible walking pile of muscles. Then…in the most horrible, disgusting way imaginable…he manages to escape from the whale using a secret exit.
Of course, the local insects also like what came out of the whale’s secret exit. They find KoD and decide he’d be much better with several stings and bites. KoD becomes violently ill from malaria and begins puking. Unfortunately he loses a lung in the process and has to be rushed to the hospital. There he is put into an iron lung and locked away by the hospital staff, who promptly forget to feed him. KoD starts starving to death inside an iron machine that is keeping him alive against his will. Crying every day, he wishes just to die.
Then, one day, a young boy from a local charity group brings KoD breakfast. There’s eggs, orange juice, coffee…and a bran muffin.
KoD eagerly eats the breakfast, having begun digesting his own stomach before being given the wonderful gift of food. He saves the muffin for last. He takes a big bite and begins choking. He passes out and dies from lack of oxygen.
However, the EMTs finally heard KoD’s cry! They bring in the jaws of life and a deliberator. AMAZINGLY, they actually bring KoD back from the dead! KoD managed to survive the terrible curse of the muffin! All is saved.
Unfortunately, whales are incredibly fond of muffins too. Wailord shows back up seeking the muffin and grinds everyone in the hospital to a fine paste. KoD is now a pancake and was, before being smashed into a breakfast food himself, Jessie, Town Aligned.
Eventually Silly’s Wailord killed itself after realizing its life as a reality TV star was meaningless. Silly’s other Poke’mon, Zapdos died of a heroin overdose. … Serena is drinking coffee peacefully. It is a luxury she will not have often. Despite the caffeine, she drifts off into sleep. She awakes to a beautiful woman. Spoiler:
Show
clearyjynx.png The big, puffy pink lips…yes, Serena must give this woman a lovely kiss! The making out is passionate and forceful. There is tongue on tongue action. During this ungodly nightmare of mankind/poke'mon relations, a mysterious move is made. Jynx yawns incredibly loud - popping her cheekbones...which turn out to be whirling blades of death. Shocked Serena tries to escape, but Jynx bear hugs her into submission. In an instant the Jynx whirls Serena's tongue into a bloody pile of dust. Slowly, the electronic blades go deeper and deeper up Serena’s throat until finally reaching the brain. A few slices here and there…Serena has been given an involuntary lobotomy. She stares into space aimlessly. She is of the living but her spirit is gone. The odd Jynx continues its plan. It vomits out several eggs into the now living corpse of Serena, via oral entry. They hatch into little Jynx maggots and begin to feast on Serena’s non-vitals. Slowly, the maggots begin to mature while eating out the inside of the still breathing, lobotomized Serena. They keep her alive in order to sustain the body as a food source – ensuring to eat an unimportant muscle, a vestigial pancreas…she’ll stay fresh longer if her heart still beats… It’s too horrible to watch anymore. All you need to know is that she was Lt. Surge, Town Aligned. Her remaining Poke’mon, Gengar and Mismagius died alone in the wilderness. Television informs you Glare has the orb now. It then flips to some local news about a ship being fired upon. Bored, you watch aimlessly until you hear a gunshot. A random Suicine had it's brains blown out. The exit wound is the size of your fist. You try to apply medicine but you realize duct tape can't fix the hypothalmus. ... TL;DR: * Silly Dragons died as James, Town Aligned. His poke'mon were Wailord and Zapdos. He was obliterated by Rayquaza. 321wailord.png145zapdos.png * King of Dominaria died as Jessie, Town Aligned. His poke'mon were Skitty, Gengar and Beedrill. He was crushed by Wailord. 300skitty.png094gengar.png015beedrill.png * Serena died as Lt. Surge, Town Aligned. Her Poke'mon were Gengar and Mismagius. She was given a Lovely Kiss. 094gengar.png429mismagius.png * A Suicine died. 245suicune.png * Glare has the Orb.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2010 - 12:23AM
#29
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A DM is the arbiter of the rules and there is some fairly silly ambiguous wording in that power. End of story. It's been discussed on these board on more that one occasion and will be tied up in a future update... the DM came up with an adequate fix so you could get on with the game. Full points to him. If you tried pulling that at my table (and I knew you were an experienced player), I'd have had to suppress a smile myself. Reminds me of the problem with that old Magic Card wording: 'Opponent loses next turn'.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2010 - 4:28AM
#30
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so i created a lvl 1 human monk for the RPGA undermountain mods and i choose harmonious thunder for obvious reasons. until it gets erratad its an instagib, i figured i could get away with using it at an event because they play raw, no house rules. so in the campaign he threw the bbeg at us so i poped HT and an action point to attack again for the instagib and he house ruled on the spot the damage can only bounce from melee or ranged attacks, house ruled me! At a published event!
am i mad for no reason or is this wrong?
Hmmm....
Daily Implement, Psionic, Thunder Standard Action Melee touch
Target: One or two creatures
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude
Hit: 3d6 + Dexterity modifier thunder damage.
Miss: Half damage.
Effect: When one of the targets takes damage, the other target takes thunder damage equal to your Strength modifier. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter or until one of the targets drops to 0 hit points. Seems clear enough. When you damage one target, the other takes thunder damage equal to STR modifier.
So, a reasonable interpretation would be:
1. Hit critter 1. Also damage critter 2. 2. Hit critter 2. Also damage critter 1.
This would follow RAW - it's not the only interpretation, of course, but it is legitimate as a reading of RAW. If this was what you ended up being able to do, then the DM is correct.
See, this is what totally cracks me up about anyone (Not you specifically Artoomis) using the idea of RAW to get their way. If there can be multiple interpretations of the rules, there really isn't any Rules as Written, is there? It's Rules as Interpretated then.
In many spots, there can be just that, multiple ways to read the rules.
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