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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 1:14PM
#91
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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Your interpretation doesn't work for triggers that work on Hit. Creatures aren't in the process of being Hit, they are either Hit (compared to defenses and beat it) or they aren't. If it doesn't rewind and recompare, you can't change the result.
Edit: If you want to consider it to be a recomparison withou t the rewind, I guess you could think of it that way. But in either case, the initial shift has happened or is happening. If it is happening, you can't change the fact that it is happening and to which square it is happening. The trigger isn't "about to shift" it is actually shifting.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 1:26PM
#92
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Fitz, that's your interpretation. Let me disapprouve. 
There's no rewind playback or anything anywhere in the PHB.
Nor does their need to be.
You assume it Shift into another square, get interrupted, get reeled back into it's square of origin and the interrupter Shift into the intended square.
It shifts into another square, gets interrupted, may (or may not) be invalidated and then either is resolved or lost. There is no assuming here, that is how Immediate Interrupts are written to work.
The target is in process of Shifting. It never leave it's square. CS and Polearm Gamble are good exemple of this. A movement Interrupted from one square to another never leaves it's original square. Only Immediate Reaction let you move and Interrupt you in after at least one square of movement is completed. #2 is wrong, there is no into another square. Except if you maintain the theory of rewind playback. Which is not in the book neither.
In the process of shifting is not in the book. That is a fictional construct you are making up to support your misinterpretation. (edit) The trigger occurred and will resolve itself normally if it wasn't for your use of Interrupt.
A triggerring action is an action or event happening right at this moment which let's you jump in before it resolve. Has the creature ever finished Shifting ? No. If it would have, you couldn't enter in it's square 
If it was an Immediate Reaction, you would be correct. But its not, its an Interrupt and as such is legal.
Why do you keep insisting on gutting the essence of what an Interrupt is meant to do?
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 2:03PM
#93
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If an interrupt invalidates a triggering action, that action is lost.
Is moving into creatures square normally an invalid action? (assuming medium size, no special circumstances). Yes. So the action is lost.
Technically the whole action is lost, be it a move action used to move, standard action used to move, or power used to move. In the case of action with multiple steps, my guess is only the last step attempted (the step that got interrupted) and all later steps are lost.
How I'd house rule it: Just that last (interrupted) 1 square of movement is lost.
"Oh bother." sighed Pooh as he chambered another round.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 2:05PM
#94
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Hum... let's see it again
Blurred Step
Trigger: An adjacent enemy marked by you shifts
Trigger: Powers that are immediate actions (interrupts or reactions) or opportunity actions have a trigger, which defines when you’re allowed to use the power. Some powers that are free actions, or that require no action to use, have a trigger as well.
Immediate Interrupt: An immediate interrupt lets you jump in when a certain trigger condition arises, acting before the trigger resolves.
When does it happen ? When you Shift. Where does it Shift ? You don't know. When do you Interrupt ? Before it resolve Shifting. My misinterpretation ? Why ? In the process of is not in the book but i translate it as before it resolve. It's in process if you didn't finished performing it. Fictional construct ? LOL May be, but Interrupt almost let one see in the future. Not at the table, but in the game. or else how could you act upon something that didn't happen yet ?
Fitz as you say, Hit are complicated to handle with Interrupt. It's where i bite my lips everytime. How can you hit and not do damage ? But it seems it would. A scratch or something. I don't know.
FAQ's and/or CS (?) has demonstrated where Polearm Gamble and CS targets where exactly at the moment they were Interrupted. A Fighter CS'ing you with an MBA keep you adjacent. Hence why they are sticky. That's fairly known no ?
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 2:13PM
#95
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Well, lets get all the facts on the table. We know, as fact, that you can shift into the square that your marked enemy is trying to shift into and prevent him from making that shift.
What's left to interpretation is what it means to lose the action. It sounds perfectly reasonable to me that you lose that square of moving but can continue shifting if you have more squares of movement.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 2:19PM
#96
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Date Joined:
Nov 11, 2009
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Steps in a shift (note, this is not from a book) In my head, I decide I'm going to shift. I reach over, I grab my mini and slide him one square. Out loud, I say, "I'm shifting to here." (Note: I don't just announce, "I'm going to shift," without indicating where to. If I did so, Blurred step is useless). The battlemind player says, "I'm going to use my blurred step." He shifts in to the square that I was going to have my mini go to. I no longer can put my mini in the square I was going to. I can't undo my decision about where he was going, he was headed there, but got interrupted. His shift action to that square is lost.  This is the whole purpose of how interrupts are supposed to work. I can't just say, "I'm going to shift" and let the Battlemind guess where I'm shifting to. The whole idea of taking a shift action implies moving somewhere. You can't be moving somewhere and then say "Wait, I'm actually moving here since you're in my way now." Otherwise every time I made an attack roll and hit and the enemy shifted away as an immediate interrupt I'd be like, "Wait, I want to attack the guy next to you instead since you're now out of range." Saying that the rules don't tell you to "target a square" to move to so you can move whereever you want is semantic nonsense and far outside the spirit of the game. Let's apply some logic to how this is supposed to work. 
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 2:23PM
#97
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2002
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Fitz as you say, Hit are complicated to handle with Interrupt. It's where i bite my lips everytime. How can you hit and not do damage ? But it seems it would. A scratch or something. I don't know.
You hit and don't do damage because damage is a step that follows determining if something is a hit or a miss.
First you determine there is a Hit. This is now the interrupts trigger point. At this point, you are now allowed to use the power (per the rules on Trigger you quoted). Now you jump in, since the trigger condition has arisen, and resolve the interrupt first. The only way to resolve it first (and allow it to potentially change the result) is to resolve the interrupt before the comparison to defenses, then compare again.
Just because the mechanics have determined initially that there is a Hit doesn't mean that the opponent has actually done anything yet. It's a mechanic, not a representation of the actual universe.
The downside is that an attack, unlike a shift, does have a step by step mechanic that can be redone without it causing major issues. You don't necessarily turn a Hit into a Miss in the actual D&D universe, you can be changing a "about to Hit" into missed. I don't see why that's an issue to take this concept and apply it to moving as well. Mechanically, the enemy shifts, then you interrupt, and instead have the interrupt resolve before the shift (in effect rewinding within the ruleset). Then the shift attempts to complete itself. The way the characters would see it is a shift that was blocked just as it was about to happen.
I don't think that must be the way to determine it, because I don't know that the shift *must* go to the same location the second time around. With a Hit/Miss scenario, you can't change the result of the original attack roll (you don't reroll). So we can't really use that as a comparison to determine if the interrupt of a shift also interrupt the choosing of a location, or if that is embedded in the actual movement. If its embedded in the movement, it makes a big difference if you are rewinding and rerunning the action, or just reapplying the action. And there *is* an interpretational difference there. In the former, you choose a new location because you are repeating the action (full rewind). In the latter, you don't you just attempt to redo the same action exactly the same way.
TLDR: Instead of rewind, think "reapply". But we don't know how reapply works with movement.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 2:35PM
#98
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...
Immediate Interrupt: An immediate interrupt lets you jump in when a certain trigger condition arises, acting before the trigger resolves.
When does it happen ? When you Shift. Where does it Shift ? You don't know.
Answering the underlined, bold, italicised question: Yes, you do know. Here is a list of powers that trigger off you knowing what square the movement is going into.
Springback Shot
Daily
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: An enemy moves during its turn to a square adjacent to you
Open the Range
Daily
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: An enemy moves adjacent to you
Answer with Steel
Encounter
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: An enemy moves during its turn to a square adjacent to you
There is also a larger list of powers that trigger of someone "entering a square [X]".
"Oh bother." sighed Pooh as he chambered another round.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 2:50PM
#99
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2003
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I think the power needs updating.
As written, this is not a terribly impressive power.
I think maybe it should be a Free Action that is executed like a Immediate Reaction (but not limited to once per round). In that way, the enemy could shift away but could immediately shift next to him if desired. It would then be a very good power for a defender.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 13, 2010 - 3:02PM
#100
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2009
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