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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 2:26AM
#31
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It would vary by build, but I could easily see a human warden picking up Weight of Earth, Thorn Strike, or Tempest Assault as a third power if not already chosen. All of them provide useful effects, and if one starts to fall out of use you can always replace it with a skill power via one of the human-only feats (and there are certainly plenty of those that are useful).
Imho Weight of earth and thorn strike are the best at wills and nearly mandatory. You can add tempest assault if you are con based or as a minion sweeper.
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 5:07AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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"immune to save end effect" path or action surge that is better than any dwarf feat
I still think Action Surge is overrated in most guides (it will probably be Dark Blue in mine), but the ability to get a huge bonus to saving throws is a good enough argument for me to bump the race up, as that bonuses does synergize best with the class that can make saves at the beginning of your turn.
That doesn't make humans any less boring. 
I'll be working on At-Will powers before lunch, and then possibly delve into low heroic after. Unless they send everyone home from work early due to the holiday.
Just an FYI, I'll tend to do more updates during the work week. Too many distractions at my apartment for me to focus on stuff like this.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 5:34AM
#33
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"immune to save end effect" path or action surge that is better than any dwarf feat
That doesn't make humans any less boring.
Totally boring but effective... like a archer ranger ^^
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 5:49AM
#34
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It would vary by build, but I could easily see a human warden picking up Weight of Earth, Thorn Strike, or Tempest Assault as a third power if not already chosen. All of them provide useful effects, and if one starts to fall out of use you can always replace it with a skill power via one of the human-only feats (and there are certainly plenty of those that are useful).
Imho Weight of earth and thorn strike are the best at wills and nearly mandatory. You can add tempest assault if you are con based or as a minion sweeper.
Just personally, Warden's Lunge makes a Reach weapon much more viable for those builds that use reach weapons to prevent shift away+attack. I might actually go with Earth Shield Strike+Mark of Warding in early Heroic. +2 to AC for a turn if you hit is pretty decent (again, particularly if you went with a 2her).
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 6:10AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Just a word for the Eladrin... Teleporting into an opportune position mark a number of enemies, pop something like Form of Mountain's Thunder is going to make you pretty popular with your buddies. Your +5 against charm attacks in addition to extra saves you get makes you very difficult to dominate. Easy access to Greatspear and extra damage with it round you out nicely, and the dex bonus makes it easier to qualify for polearm momentum, not to mention with fighter multiclass you will also get access to Eladrin's Challenge if you want to save your dragonmark for something other than Mark of Warding. If you don't go greatspear/fighter MC, sword and board is still not a bad option either. Red doesn't seem right for the eladrin. I understand there is no primary or secondary stat synergy, but there are a few redeeming factors I think.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 6:13AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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At-Wills are done, please debate. Good point about Warden's Lunge and polearms. I shall revise it to accommodate. I guess I should include a disclaimer about Dragonmarks. I'm not going to be putting as much weight in them as other guides. I'm playing D&D about 2-3 times a week at this point, and in none of the games I play in are Dragonmarks allowed. That's not to say they won't be getting top marks, but I won't be assuming their availability for optimization. Just a word for the Eladrin... Teleporting into an opportune position mark a number of enemies, pop something like Form of Mountain's Thunder is going to make you pretty popular with your buddies. Your +5 against charm attacks in addition to extra saves you get makes you very difficult to dominate. Easy access to Greatspear and extra damage with it round you out nicely, and the dex bonus makes it easier to qualify for polearm momentum, not to mention with fighter multiclass you will also get access to Eladrin's Challenge if you want to save your dragonmark for something other than Mark of Warding. If you don't go greatspear/fighter MC, sword and board is still not a bad option either. Red doesn't seem right for the eladrin. I understand there is no primary or secondary stat synergy, but there are a few redeeming factors I think.
Very well, I shall make them Purple.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 7:16AM
#37
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I agree with your ratings... except i don't like earth shield strike (i think you should rate it black), but that's only my opinion.
Sure thing: the strength of the warden isn't in its at-wills. They pales expecially when confronted with Fighter ones.
Chauntea/Lathander/Torm Cleric since 1995 My husband married a DM - καλὸς καὶ ἀγαθός
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 7:36AM
#38
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Interesting.... Our Life Warden rated Resilience of Life and Strength of Stone as the 2 best AtWills. Just because the enemy is suppose to focus on you, doesn't mean he's going to ignore the Striker hitting him, when the Striker is easier to kill. Resilience of Life lets a Striker stand shoulder to shoulder (or flank) with the Warden, and in doing so, tag-team for a much quicker kill, and thus fewer threats. At the same time, the REAL job of the Defender is to keep your team alive for that kill. Temp HP sure help in that, and they can be given every round... Likewise, if there is no striker nearby, Strength of Stone gives the Warden HP every turn... I see them both as Dark Blue...
But.... I don't play the Warden, so that's just what I see, not necessarily what's factual for all Wardens.
So I can be like everybody else!!! :D :D :D 
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 8:04AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I agree with your ratings... except i don't like earth shield strike (i think you should rate it black), but that's only my opinion.
Sure thing: the strength of the warden isn't in its at-wills. They pales expecially when confronted with Fighter ones.
I'm going back and forth on Earth Shield Strike. Though when I think about it, even if you needed the extra defense boost, you should be using your Second Wind.
Interesting.... Our Life Warden rated Resilience of Life and Strength of Stone as the 2 best AtWills. Just because the enemy is suppose to focus on you, doesn't mean he's going to ignore the Striker hitting him, when the Striker is easier to kill. Resilience of Life lets a Striker stand shoulder to shoulder (or flank) with the Warden, and in doing so, tag-team for a much quicker kill, and thus fewer threats. At the same time, the REAL job of the Defender is to keep your team alive for that kill. Temp HP sure help in that, and they can be given every round... Likewise, if there is no striker nearby, Strength of Stone gives the Warden HP every turn... I see them both as Dark Blue...
But.... I don't play the Warden, so that's just what I see, not necessarily what's factual for all Wardens.
I'd feel better about this power if the ally receiving the Temp HP didn't have to be adjacent. I've found that if your enemy is adjacent to both you and an ally and you've got him marked, he'll most likely go for you. But once he's outside of your threat area, your allies are free game, so being able to grant the target of non-adjacent enemies Temp HP would bump it to blue in my eyes. For something that's going to be used maybe 1 or 2 times an encounter (Strength of Stone probably sees more use than Resilience of Life among the two you mention, though I could be wrong), you're better off picking up an encounter power that grants Temp HP, such as Warden's Sacrifice.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 02, 2010 - 9:50AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2009
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I'm going back and forth on Earth Shield Strike. Though when I think about it, even if you needed the extra defense boost, you should be using your Second Wind.
Earth Shield Strike gets situationally more consideration if you take Mark of Warding (bonus now +2), particularly if you plan to further stack on the Mark to-hit penalty with a Fighter MC at Paragon or if you simply want to eschew the Shield for a bigger weapon and have a one-enemy-remaining fall back power.
If you're accepting sample builds, I have a level 12 Goliath Hammer Rhythm Guardian Form build that is a solid off-tank or small group Defender/Striker averaging mid-20s DPR (depending on form).
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