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3 years ago ::
Apr 12, 2010 - 11:18AM
#51
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I thank you all, for your information regarding my question. The consensus seems to be, that there is no RAW answer. So if noone has asked CS or is going to, then may i propose at least in regards to the spirit companion to assume 20 as max range (as in "close burst 20")? This seems to be close enough to RAI and is not overpowered, as would an infinite range be.
I would call it strong RAI since other rules actually seem to build on this interpretation being the one the designers intended in this case. Suiotudure is right though, technically a close power has no defined range and there are certainly other powers which don't make sense under this interpretation. All that really proves is that the rules aren't totally consistent. In the context of the Call Spirit Companion power it seems safe to consider the size of the burst to be a 'range'. Just remember you can't extrapolate that to other situations.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
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3 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2010 - 11:52PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2003
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I thank you all, for your information regarding my question. The consensus seems to be, that there is no RAW answer. So if noone has asked CS or is going to, then may i propose at least in regards to the spirit companion to assume 20 as max range (as in "close burst 20")? This seems to be close enough to RAI and is not overpowered, as would an infinite range be.
I would call it strong RAI since other rules actually seem to build on this interpretation being the one the designers intended in this case. Suiotudure is right though, technically a close power has no defined range and there are certainly other powers which don't make sense under this interpretation. All that really proves is that the rules aren't totally consistent. In the context of the Call Spirit Companion power it seems safe to consider the size of the burst to be a 'range'. Just remember you can't extrapolate that to other situations.
I would also vote for this being a strong RAI case, and never really considered it debatable point. While technically in RAW Close powers have no range, for all intents and purposes, the number given for the area of effect is the range (or "range of the effect" if you will), particularly for Close burst powers that effect single targets or squares within the burst, as opposed to all creatures within the AOE.
Prime example: Healing Spirits - Close 5. If you were to ask any player the range of this power (or most similar healing powers) they would say "five"; they wouldn't say "zero, but you can target any ally within 5 squares", even if that is the RAW. The healing powers are Close type powers because if they were Ranged, you couldn't target yourself with them.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 5:25AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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I would also vote for this being a strong RAI case, and never really considered it debatable point. While technically in RAW Close powers have no range, for all intents and purposes, the number given for the area of effect is the range (or "range of the effect" if you will), particularly for Close burst powers that effect single targets or squares within the burst, as opposed to all creatures within the AOE.
Prime example: Healing Spirits - Close 5. If you were to ask any player the range of this power (or most similar healing powers) they would say "five"; they wouldn't say "zero, but you can target any ally within 5 squares", even if that is the RAW. The healing powers are Close type powers because if they were Ranged, you couldn't target yourself with them.
And you would provoke OAs from adjacent enemies, which would turn melee healers very ineffective.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 7:53AM
#54
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2004
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The Spirit companion gets the Defenses that the player's character has but, does it also get the characters Resistances as well?
Sentack
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3 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2010 - 7:59AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Resistances are not defenses and this is a case where the rules are pretty silent on the issue so I think the answer is no.
I think from a mechanics perspective that would make the spirit companion overpowered since they are already hard to destroy as is, adding in resistances would make them pretty much indestructable to those damage types because of the way monster damage scales.
my handbooks & builds
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3 years ago ::
Apr 20, 2010 - 11:43AM
#56
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Excellent info here, but I think you should alter the color of either the Questions or the Answers slightly, would just make it a bit easier to read. Great work ^_^
"All I hear now is the sound of the Charop boards and all their builds popping" ~ Mithreinmaethor "Oh I forgot, common sense no longer exists. It died with the invent of the internet age. ~ Thunder_Dragonbane ~ 1001 Reasons to Love 4E
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3 years ago ::
Apr 20, 2010 - 2:04PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Good idea. I bolded the questions.
my handbooks & builds
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3 years ago ::
Apr 21, 2010 - 2:37AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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Resistances are not defenses and this is a case where the rules are pretty silent on the issue so I think the answer is no.
I think from a mechanics perspective that would make the spirit companion overpowered since they are already hard to destroy as is, adding in resistances would make them pretty much indestructable to those damage types because of the way monster damage scales.
I would be like adding insult to injury on the DMs perspective. After all, damage resistance already reduces the damage the shaman takes, when the spirit dies. So increasing his damage threshold with resistance would be really overpowered.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 21, 2010 - 6:31AM
#59
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I would be like adding insult to injury on the DMs perspective. After all, damage resistance already reduces the damage the shaman takes, when the spirit dies. So increasing his damage threshold with resistance would be really overpowered.
No it doesn't, sorry. The damage the Shaman takes when the Companion 'dies' cannot be reduced in any way.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards."
~ yesnomu
"Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless."
~ SanityFaerie
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3 years ago ::
Apr 21, 2010 - 6:48AM
#60
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Why not? It just says you're taking damage. Contrast to the wording of the Paladin Blood of the Mighty power effect.
Effect: You take 5 damage, which can’t be reduced in any way.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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