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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 3:15PM
#41
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Bolded the different text for ease of comparison.
Ok, so I'll pick a zone. Stinking Cloud
Standard Action Area burst 2 within 20 squares
The stinking cloud ends if, at the end of your turn, at least one square is not within 20 squares of the caster.
Where is the confusion here?
(edit) Found a blast zone. There are 3 hits for "zone blast move" in the compendium.
Standard Action Close blast 3
Effect: The blast creates a zone of brambles that lasts until the end of your next turn. While within the zone, you and your allies gain cover. When any enemy enters the zone or starts its turn there, it takes 5 damage. As a move action, you can move the zone 3 squares.
I'll concur, not as clear as a Stinking Cloud. Seems straight forward enough to be that if one square of the zone is still within a close blast 3 of the caster it doesn't end.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 3:27PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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Bolded the different text for ease of comparison.
Ok, so I'll pick a zone. Stinking Cloud
Standard Action Area burst 2 within 20 squares
The stinking cloud ends if, at the end of your turn, at least one square is not within 20 squares of the caster.
Where is the confusion here?
Ok, I'll pick many zones.
Consecrated Ground: Close Burst 1, can move 3 squares as a move action
Guillaume's Veil: Close Burst 2, can move 4 squares as a move action
Awaken the Forest: Close Burst 3, can move 5 squares as a move action
Shadowdark Invocation: Close Burst 3, can move 3 squares as a move action
Creeping Brambles: Close Blast 3, can move 3 squares as a move action
Dragon Temptest: Close Blast 5, can move 3 squares as a move action
Misty Breath: Close Blast 5, can move 3 squares as a move action
Perfect Prison: Close Burst 1, can move 3 squares as a move action
Creeping Doom: Close Burst 1-5, can move 3 squares as a move action (and can grow each time you sustain it)
Fragment of the Song: Close Burst 5, can move 3 squares as a move action
I fail to see how pointing out an Area zone is relevant to this topic.
Close burst/blast X powers have no range by their nature... they have no "within X squares" like your stinky reference, which obviously does have a range.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 3:53PM
#43
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If the zone exits the area of effect by the end of your turn, it ends.
It's easy to use and easy to understand.
Defining range to be 0 leads to absurdity so that can be rejected out of hand.
Defining range to be infinite seems broken.
If our options are absurdity, broken and easy, I'll take easy everytime.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 4:06PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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If the zone exits the area of effect by the end of your turn, it ends.
That is not what the books say though--unless you have a citation to back this up. Also, it does not work with the close blast zones, like I was saying in the original post of mine that you quoted.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 7:54PM
#45
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Unless the books say something contrary, its a reasonable extrapolation of the existing rules. Is it official? Well, we could ask CS for an official ruling if you like.
It works for blasts exactly the same as a burst. If the zone exits the blast's area of effect by the end of your turn, it ends.
What is the alternative? Strike the powers as illegal because range is indeterminate?
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 8:07PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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It is also the argument that has the least RAW support.
The one with the most RAW support is probably that close bursts have a range of 0. Since that leads to a nonsensical result for conjurations, I'm comfortable ignoring that and going with the one that is arguable by RAW and seems most in tune with the RAI.
If you want a strict RAW answer, I think you end up with something like "The conjuration ends if you are not within range of at least 1 square it's in (using the power's range). If the power doesn't have a range, you can never be within range of it using the power's range, so it ends."
If RAW gives you an over-restrictive answer, I would think you would have to fall back on RAI or "whatever your DM says", not "that means we ignore the restriction".
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 8:10PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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For those who find this topic interesting, the problem with Close powers lacking a clearly defined range (not to be confused with an area of effect) has been discussed before, eventually resulting in a post to the PHB errata forum. Edit: GelatinousOctahedron, by the way, thank you for making this great Spirit Companion FAQ post for the Q&A forum! Very, very useful.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2010 - 4:54AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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I thank you all, for your information regarding my question. The consensus seems to be, that there is no RAW answer. So if noone has asked CS or is going to, then may i propose at least in regards to the spirit companion to assume 20 as max range (as in "close burst 20")? This seems to be close enough to RAI and is not overpowered, as would an infinite range be.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2010 - 8:30AM
#49
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2004
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Question. The Spirit companion can not die unless it takes a total damage from a single attack equal to 10 + ( Player's Level / 2 ). So at level 2, the DM would need to do 11 damage total from a single attack. Say the DM has a monster that does the following attack.
 Heated Shortsword (Standard, At-Will )  Weapon |
| +8 vs AC; 1d6+4 damage plus 5 Fire Damage |
This is a single attack with multiple damage components, in effect. Is there anything stating that such an attack would not be sufficent to kill the monster in one hit unless the DM rolls a 1 on damage? In theory, if the DM rolls a 2, he would do 2 + 4 + 5 damage. That's 11 damage in one strike. That should kill the companion. The reason the attack is broken into two parts is due to the potental for resistances or vulnerabilities. But that's how it works out. Would this kill the companion pet in one strike? Or is there some kind of ruleing that if a single attack does different kinds of damage, you treat them individually in some manner? Sentack
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3 years ago ::
Apr 10, 2010 - 8:37AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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Would this kill the companion pet in one strike?
It is a single melee attack and it can definitely do 11 damage or more. That is all that is needed. If, instead, it was 1d6+4, make a secondary attack. +x vs Def 5 fire damage, then that would not work, as it is now two attacks.
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