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3 years ago ::
May 05, 2010 - 6:44AM
#91
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Just going by the images in PHB2, the spirits seem to be ghostly representations of living creatures. So I guess it matters what you mean by look living.
Is the party going to put on makeup and say "Brrains..." to walk past all the undead? =)
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
May 05, 2010 - 8:59AM
#92
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2009
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There's not a RAW answer to how living a spiritc companion looks afaik. That being said, I'd lean towards SC's being obviously not mortal since the game is generally supposed to be fairly transparent mechanically.
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3 years ago ::
May 05, 2010 - 9:26AM
#93
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Yeah, I'll point that out to the DM. Playing it that way (where it appeared to be a living creature) makes the SC a very good defender at level 1. Especially against unintelligent undead who can't deal more than 10 damage on a hit. 
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3 years ago ::
May 06, 2010 - 2:18AM
#94
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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Yeah, I'll point that out to the DM. Playing it that way (where it appeared to be a living creature) makes the SC a very good defender at level 1. Especially against unintelligent undead who can't deal more than 10 damage on a hit.
I doubt that stupid undead would attack the spirit at all. They would either have some way to "sense" living creatures and attack them in favor of spirits, other undead or constructs. Or they might not even perceive the spirit as an enemy, as it's not substantial so they just ignore him.
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3 years ago ::
May 06, 2010 - 7:50AM
#95
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Yeah, I'll point that out to the DM. Playing it that way (where it appeared to be a living creature) makes the SC a very good defender at level 1. Especially against unintelligent undead who can't deal more than 10 damage on a hit.
I doubt that stupid undead would attack the spirit at all. They would either have some way to "sense" living creatures and attack them in favor of spirits, other undead or constructs. Or they might not even perceive the spirit as an enemy, as it's not substantial so they just ignore him.
So the central feature of the class is now less useful against anything that "sees life"? That's... Well, that's making a character worse in a fight for fluff reasons. As far as I knew undead don't have special senses or perceive the world differently than their description says they do (so either through normal vision, Low-Light Vision or Darkvision -- maybe Tremorsense on rare occasions). So, while I understand that most creatures will not attack a spirit companion because they are difficult to kill and little is gained from doing so, making a creature ignore it for no good reason is kinda... Well it cheapens the class feature.
And besides, if you're going to run with the zombies not perceiving it, then obviously they won't try to walk around it and avoid OAs.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards."
~ yesnomu
"Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless."
~ SanityFaerie
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3 years ago ::
May 06, 2010 - 8:10AM
#96
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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RAW there is no reason for any creature to totally refuse to attack the SC since it is a threat, but this is always a DM call as to how monsters should think. My DM treats the SC differently depending on the enemy. The ones who are familar with shamans make sure to shift to avoid the attacks and try to get around it if they can instead of attacking it. Most enemies who see this spirit attacking them simply attack it back if it is the easiest target to get to. If I successfully use the SC to pin down an intelligent enemy where he has no good chioce, but to attack the SC the DM will attack.
My favorite shaman moment this campaign was right after we hit level 12 when a large enemy was stuck in between two trees with my SC in front of him. His only reasonable option was to attack the SC which he did, dealing 15 points of damage, and wasting his turn even though he hit it. Earlier in that same fight I think I critted the same enemy with spirit fangs as well.
my handbooks & builds
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3 years ago ::
May 06, 2010 - 9:09AM
#97
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Heh, very nice. And I dunno. With the supposed transparency of the powers and rules, basically that every combatant knows every effect that's currently in operation or that they could trigger, it's hard to say sometimes what a creature would do. With some things, like marks or OAs, it's a very simple choice especially if it's a minion. With other things, like the spirit companion and the various tricks it can have, it's a complicated decision.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards."
~ yesnomu
"Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless."
~ SanityFaerie
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3 years ago ::
May 07, 2010 - 2:57AM
#98
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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From a mechanical DM point of view, the spirit is a very effective damage soaking... thing. So whatever monsters do, it is always better todo something else than attacking the spirit. There are certainly exceptions, but many monsters have better things todo than attacking it.
There are no undead (intelligent our not) in the real world, so it's difficult to imagine how they would react in specific situations. But i guess it depends mostly on how they were created (or by whom). Some unintelligend undead are raised by necromancers, while other dead bodies simply stand up again, after being subject to "necroctic" energy. In both cases they have some kind of senses, as well as instincts or some kind of "programming" to discern friend, foe, prey, etc.. So it all depends on the DM, wether his undead perceive the SC as threat and attack it, or rather turn to the shaman, who has delicious BRAINS.
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3 years ago ::
May 07, 2010 - 8:09AM
#99
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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For what its worth, we ended the campaign last night and the final enemy enjoyed destroying my spirit companion multiple times, to the point where it was leaving my character pretty beat up. My DM gave me different "spirits" for each part of the campaign. For the final fight the spirit companion was the BBEG's dead husband who she had murdered when he had decided their time on the mortal world was over. They had both been minor deities and he was now trying to force her to leave the mortal world and she had different ideas.
my handbooks & builds
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3 years ago ::
May 07, 2010 - 8:25AM
#100
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If they cant pass thru it, and its attacking them....I would think unintelligent creatures would still have a sizeable chance of attacking it back.
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