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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 11:21AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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According to the rules on conjuration in PH3 (page 216), when you move a conjuration at least one square of the conjuration must be within range of you and you must have line of effect to at least one square (these apparently don't have to be the same square) at the end of your turn or the conjuration ends.
(There is no comment, in that location, on what happens if the conjuration stays put and you move.)
So no, you can't park yourself in a nice safe location and send your Spirit Companion rampaging for miles.
Also, if the conjuration can attack, you must have line of sight to the target. The conjuration must have line of effect. (If it's a blast/burst that targets "all creatures" then I would houserule to say that you must have line of sight to the origin square. A fireball doesn't care who can see what part of it. When a power says "all enemies" you're being selective, and it's reasonable to say you can't select enemies in areas you can't see.)
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 11:31AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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According to the rules on conjuration in PH3 (page 216), when you move a conjuration at least one square of the conjuration must be within range of you and you must have line of effect to at least one square (these apparently don't have to be the same square) at the end of your turn or the conjuration ends.
(There is no comment, in that location, on what happens if the conjuration stays put and you move.)
So no, you can't park yourself in a nice safe location and send your Spirit Companion rampaging for miles.
Also, if the conjuration can attack, you must have line of sight to the target. The conjuration must have line of effect. (If it's a blast/burst that targets "all creatures" then I would houserule to say that you must have line of sight to the origin square. A fireball doesn't care who can see what part of it. When a power says "all enemies" you're being selective, and it's reasonable to say you can't select enemies in areas you can't see.)
Your arguments are irrelevant for this discussion. If the shaman is on top of a tree on an open plain, then LoE shouldn't be a problem most of the time. The question is just, wether "close burst 20" is similar to "area brust X within 20" or not. Also note that both conditions (range and LoE) only need to be fullfilled at the end of the shamans turn.
Most Shaman attack powers have the spirit keyword, which specifies that LoS and LoE for them are determined from the SPIRIT (which is a conjuration with rule exceptions).
I know that this is a confusing topic, because there are so many rules exceptions in regards to the shaman. But taht's also why i ask questions on the board, to clear them.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 11:34AM
#33
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Which close burst are we talking about exactly? Call Spirit Companion? Minor Action Close burst 20 Effect: You conjure your spirit companion in an unoccupied square in the burst. • Movable Conjurations: If the power you use to create a conjuration allows you to move it, it’s a movable conjuration. At the end of your turn, the movable conjuration ends if you are not within range of at least 1 square it’s in (using the power’s range) or if you don’t have line of effect to at least 1 square it’s in. Seems pretty clear cut to me. If the spirit is >20 squares away from you at the end of your turn, the conjuration ends.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 12:19PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Also, if the conjuration can attack, you must have line of sight to the target. The conjuration must have line of effect.
In this case specific beats general. Page 220 of PHB2 says that with the spirit keyword you determine both line of sight and effect from the spirit.
my handbooks & builds
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 2:08PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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I think the argument that, for purposes of being within range of a movable zone/conjuration created with a close burst, at least one square of the zone/conjuration needs to be within range of you (as defined by the size of the area of effect of the power), is the one that makes the most sense.
It is also the argument that has the least RAW support.
Also, what of close blast zones? Would a close blast 3 then have a range of 4?
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 2:17PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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I think the argument that, for purposes of being within range of a movable zone/conjuration created with a close burst, at least one square of the zone/conjuration needs to be within range of you (as defined by the size of the area of effect of the power), is the one that makes the most sense.
It is also the argument that has the least RAW support.
Also, what of close blast zones? Would a close blast 3 then have a range of 4?
I think that as long as some people are unwilling to interpret "range" in regard to a close power as "where you could have been when casting it, to cover all the target area in question", this issue cannot be resolved except by asking WotC.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 2:34PM
#37
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I think the argument that, for purposes of being within range of a movable zone/conjuration created with a close burst, at least one square of the zone/conjuration needs to be within range of you (as defined by the size of the area of effect of the power), is the one that makes the most sense.
It is also the argument that has the least RAW support.
Also, what of close blast zones? Would a close blast 3 then have a range of 4?
Which conjuration is summoned within a blast?
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 2:55PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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It is also the argument that has the least RAW support.
Also, what of close blast zones? Would a close blast 3 then have a range of 4?
Which conjuration is summoned within a blast?
Bolded the part you apparently missed.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 3:01PM
#39
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It is also the argument that has the least RAW support.
Also, what of close blast zones? Would a close blast 3 then have a range of 4?
Which conjuration is summoned within a blast?
Bolded the part you apparently missed.
Bolded the part that is relevant to the thread.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 3:07PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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I think the argument that, for purposes of being within range of a movable zone/conjuration created with a close burst, at least one square of the zone/conjuration needs to be within range of you (as defined by the size of the area of effect of the power), is the one that makes the most sense.
It is also the argument that has the least RAW support.
Also, what of close blast zones? Would a close blast 3 then have a range of 4?
Which conjuration is summoned within a blast?
Bolded the part you apparently missed.
Bolded the part that is relevant to the thread.
Bolded the parts that are relevant to the post you replied to.
Also, it is relevant to the thread, since movable conjurations and movable zones have the exact same rules text.
✦ Movable Conjurations: If the power you use
to create a conjuration allows you to move it, it’s
a movable conjuration. At the end of your turn,
the movable conjuration ends if you are not within
range of at least 1 square it’s in (using the power’s
range) or if you don’t have line of effect to at
least 1 square it’s in.
When you move a conjuration, you can’t move it
through a solid obstacle.
✦ Movable Zones: If the power you use to create
a zone allows you to move it, it’s a movable zone.
At the end of your turn, the movable zone ends if
you are not within range of at least 1 square of it
(using the power’s range) or if you don’t have line of
effect to at least 1 square of it.
When you move a zone, you can’t move it
through a solid obstacle.
Bolded the different text for ease of comparison.
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