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2 years ago ::
Nov 25, 2010 - 12:21PM
#271
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Opportunity Actions have no inherent triggers. The spirit OA triggers on leaving a square in general, minus shifting which has no immunity to OAs. Teleportation is a specific type of movement which specifically does not trigger OAs that would occur for leaving a square. If that does not make it prevent the OA from leaving a square adjacent to a spirit, what could it apply to?
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2 years ago ::
Dec 02, 2010 - 10:57AM
#272
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Hi guys. I'm a new D&D player and I happened to pick the Shaman class. This forum has been very useful for learning how the shaman works. I just have a couple of questions that could use clarification.
Do I need line of sight on the space where I summon my SC or does it just need to be within 20 squares? For instance if I'm on an elevated platform, can I summon the SC in a space below the platform that I cannot see? My DM would not let me do this.
Do I need to maintain line of sight with my SC to keep it from disappearing or can I move it behind walls or move myself behind walls without it going away? I'm assuming my DM thinks the spirit would disappear, but I don't think it should have to disappear.
Thanks!
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2 years ago ::
Dec 03, 2010 - 7:40AM
#273
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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Hi Beldbearhand, welcome to the forums!
Your DM is partially right. Whenever you use a power, you must have at least line of effect to the target(s) (except the power says otherwise). See page 273 of PHB (players handbook 1) for more info about LoS (line of sight) and LoE (line of effect). I guess this is also somewhere in the RC (rules compendium), but i don't know where.
So you cannot call your SC below a platform you stand on.
What happens if the spirit moves out of range (20 squares) or out of sight? That's determined by the "conjuration" keyword, the power "Call Spirit Companion" has. So you can move your SC below the platform and attack (see "spirit" keyword, most shaman power have) targets there, during your turn. But as soon as your turn ends, your SC disappears, if it's still out of range and/or out of LoE.
See page 1 of this FAQ for rule sources, regarding the keywords.
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2 years ago ::
Dec 05, 2010 - 1:38PM
#274
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2008
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It says the spirit companion occupies a square and enemies cannot move through it. However, can Huge enemies move through it (possibly provoking Spirit Shield) since they're two size categories larger? Our Shaman just asked this and I ruled yes, they can since it's implied that the companion is Medium, but I'd like other opinions.
OD&D, 1E and 2E challenged the player.
3E challenged the character, not the player.
Now 4E takes it a step further by challenging a GROUP OF PLAYERS to work together as a TEAM.
That's why I love 4E.
"Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my ... BMX skills look a bit redundant."
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2 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2010 - 3:42AM
#275
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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@Siegfried: That's an interesting question, never thought about that. Creatures can move though enemies spaces two size categories larger or smaller than themselves (with OAs), but the spirit is not creature. It's a conjuration, that occupies one square. So i guess rules wise, the huge creature couldn't pass through the spirits space, because it's not an enemy (as with all non-creatures). Though as DM i would rule, that it's possible. Question from me: Think of a half-elf shaman (WIS 18), with the new racial power Knack for Success. Spoiler:
Show
Knack for Success Half-Elf Racial Utility
Encounter
Minor Action Close burst 5
Target: You or one ally in the burst
Effect: Choose one of the following.
✦ The target makes a saving throw.
✦ The target shifts up to 2 squares as a free action.
✦ The target gains a +2 power bonus to his or her next
attack roll made before the end of his or her next turn.
✦ The target gains a +4 power bonus to his or her next
skill check made before the end of his or her next turn. Isn't it a bit overpowered if such a shaman uses knack for success and speak with spirits, to gain +8 to any skill check (as two minor actions) starting at LV 1?
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2 years ago ::
Jan 01, 2011 - 8:23PM
#276
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2010
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Thread necromancy!  I have a strange situation... Odds are, one of the players of the PbP game I'm running elsewhere reads this forum, so if it's you... STOP READING! :P ... Anyway, here's the situation: Party has a shaman that likes to send his SC as sort of a forward scout, ahead of the rest of the group, just in case something jumps out at it (most of the enemies haven't been particularly bright so far, so they may not tell the difference between the ghost-like SC and a real threat). So the shaman summons the SC to position "A" and asks it to move to position "B". Problem is that, along the way and including position "B", there's an illusory floor and a deep pit (which has not been detected by the party... yet). If something falls through it, the illusion does remain. So it's a definite loss of Line of Sight, and an arguable loss of Line of Effect, so by my understanding of the rules that would make the SC disappear if it did in fact fall through the floor. Questions then relating to this: 1) Does it fall? My understanding is that an SC could fly since it's not a "real" creature. If the shaman isn't aware of the environment, and isn't aware that a "real" creature would fall under those circumstances, and the creature has no senses of its own, does it know that it should fall or does it simply walk across the surface because it thinks its solid? 2) How would this actually look? SC falls through the floor and... nothing? Or does it simply blink out? Does it walk over the ground as if it was solid? Does it refuse to move? 3) When an SC blinks out, how much does the shaman know about the circumstances regarding that? In the above example, would the shaman know that the SC began to fall, fell out of view and blinked out, or does he simply know that something happened... but isn't sure what?
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2 years ago ::
Jan 01, 2011 - 9:45PM
#277
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Thread necromancy!
I have a strange situation... Odds are, one of the players of the PbP game I'm running elsewhere reads this forum, so if it's you... STOP READING! :P
...
Anyway, here's the situation: Party has a shaman that likes to send his SC as sort of a forward scout, ahead of the rest of the group, just in case something jumps out at it (most of the enemies haven't been particularly bright so far, so they may not tell the difference between the ghost-like SC and a real threat).
So the shaman summons the SC to position "A" and asks it to move to position "B". Problem is that, along the way and including position "B", there's an illusory floor and a deep pit (which has not been detected by the party... yet). If something falls through it, the illusion does remain.
So it's a definite loss of Line of Sight, and an arguable loss of Line of Effect, so by my understanding of the rules that would make the SC disappear if it did in fact fall through the floor.
Questions then relating to this:
1) Does it fall? My understanding is that an SC could fly since it's not a "real" creature. If the shaman isn't aware of the environment, and isn't aware that a "real" creature would fall under those circumstances, and the creature has no senses of its own, does it know that it should fall or does it simply walk across the surface because it thinks its solid?
2) How would this actually look? SC falls through the floor and... nothing? Or does it simply blink out? Does it walk over the ground as if it was solid? Does it refuse to move?
3) When an SC blinks out, how much does the shaman know about the circumstances regarding that? In the above example, would the shaman know that the SC began to fall, fell out of view and blinked out, or does he simply know that something happened... but isn't sure what?
As per the rules for Conjurations, the spirit companion is not affected by environmental stuff, so it would just move over the illusory floor as if it was a solid floor. The shaman would get no indication that there is anything amiss.
When a spirit companion goes away, I don't think the shaman gets any real info from that, aside from "the spirit companion has dispersed" or something. There is a Shaman utility power that allows the spirit companion to move farther than 20 squares from the shaman and allow the shaman to sense things from the spirit companion's square.
Spoiler:
Show
Shaman Utility 6Roaming Mind, Roving Spirit
By sharing a part of your intellect with your spirit companion, your spirit companion gains the ability to act independently and you can perceive with its senses.
Daily  Primal, Spirit
Standard Action Ranged 20
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you do not need line of sight or line of effect to your spirit companion, and can move your spirit companion beyond its normal range. You perceive the surroundings of your spirit companion as if you were in its place. You cannot make attacks through your spirit companion when you do not have line of effect to the spirit companion or when it is further than 20 squares away.
Published in Dragon Magazine 383, page(s) 65.
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2 years ago ::
Jan 02, 2011 - 8:51AM
#278
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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I agree with undrhill. The SC would not fall because SCs can move vertically and is not subject to the environment according to published materials. Whether or not the SC could report back what is going on, I would assume no because the default assumption is it can not make skill checks or report back to the shaman, but it is a DM call.
my handbooks & builds
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2 years ago ::
Jan 02, 2011 - 9:01AM
#279
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2010
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Thanks for the feedback everyone. This should prove interesting...
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2 years ago ::
Jan 03, 2011 - 8:45AM
#280
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If the shaman shifts as a move action, can the spirit companion move it's full speed? It seems that it could, but an alternate ruling could only allow the SC to move 1.
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