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3 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2010 - 1:41AM
#21
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Q: how physical is a spirit? can it lift things or trigger weight-based traps (pressure plates or pit traps)?
(both answers can give it tactical adantage: if it does trigger, we've got an auto-trap finder. if it doesn't, the spirit can fight above untriggered traps with no problem) )
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3 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2010 - 3:56AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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There is no general rule on this, but the general consensus is that the spirit has no physical form (though it occupies a square). So it cannot trigger traps on it's own (floating above a pressure plate is the same as above a fissure or simply air).
But you can use attacks, like "stalkers strike" or any other that doesn't target will, to try to active traps that you discover (with perception). Just be aware, that objects don't have a will defense, meaning they are immune to attacks, that target will.
The at-will utility power "Assistence of the strong spirit" could be used to manipulate objects. During combat you'd have to spend a standard action for it, which is quite a waste. What you can do with it outside if combat is up to your DM (i don't have this power, so i haven't asked mine what he thinks of it).
Mechanically, the spirit does not have a will of it's own, so it's just a puppet controlled by the shaman.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 08, 2010 - 7:54AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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Mechanically, the spirit does not have a will of it's own, so it's just a puppet controlled by the shaman.
Fluff-wise... our shaman's Spirit Companion is opinionated and stubborn. The two of them argue frequently. (On the other hand, the SC is rather amused by how much the appearance of a "ghost" terrifies most of the locals folks.)
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 1:45AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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What happens, in the following scenarios:
The spirit is out of my shamans line of sight (LoS), Line of Effect (LoE) or range (burst 20)?
The compendium says about "Movable Conjurations: If the power you use to create a conjuration allows you to move it, it’s a movable conjuration. At the end of your turn, the movable conjuration ends if you are not within range of at least 1 square it’s in (using the power’s range) or if you don’t have line of effect to at least 1 square it’s in. When you move a conjuration, you can’t move it through blocking terrain."
Spirit keyword reads:
"You can use a spirit power only if your spirit companion is present in the encounter. If a spirit power includes “spirit” in its range, you determine line of sight and line of effect from your spirit companion’s space, which is the power’s origin square."
I couldn't find any other RAW rulings, regarding my question. If the above are the only ruling, could i do the following things:
1. Attacking enemies aroung corners: If i conjure the SC in range and take a move action, to let him move my speed around a corner or wall, i can still attack enemies i can't see, because LoS and LoE are both determined from the SC with spirit powers. After the attack i could reconjure him in LoS and LoE so he doesn't disappaer at the end of my turn.
2. Healing around corners: Again i conjure the SC in range, LoS and LoE and move him around a corner or wall, adjacent to a dying ally. Then i use "healing spirit" on myself. If i spend a healing surge, could i use the secondary effect of "healing spirit" on the dying ally?
3. Attacking outside of spirits range (close burst 20): I conjure the spirit 20 squares away and move him 5 square, so he's 25 squares away (i have LoS and LoE to him). Could i then let him attack an enemy that's 26 squares away (or 27 with totemic spear) with a spirit attack?
4. Healing outside of spirits range: Could i heal an ally with "healing spirits" secondary effect, who's adjacent to the spirit in the prior case (i'm the primary target again)?
5. Attacking outside of spirits range, without LoS and LoE: Like 3, but this time i moved the spirit around a corner or wall, after conjuring it.
6. Healing outside of spirits range, without LoS and LoE: Like 4, but this time i moved the spirit around a corner or wall, after conjuring it. I still use healing spirit myself and try to "use" it's secondary effect on an ally adjacent to the spirit, but i don't have LoS and LoE to both.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 7:19AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Those all should work fine. From my understanding of the rules you need line of sight for the square you first conjure it into, but afterwards it can go anywhere and can attack and heal outside 20 squares. It just needs to be within 20 squares at the end of your turn if you don't want it to disappear.
I think the greatest range I can think of assuming your shaman has a base move of 6 and you are using a farseeing totem (+2 squares for ranged powes) and a power like spirit lance (ranged spirit 10). You could start out with the spirit 20 squares away, move it 6 and then attack a target another 12 squares away, which is a target 38 squares away from you.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 7:49AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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or range (burst 20)?
"close burst X" is not a range. The range for close powers is either 0 or infinity, so you most likely can move your spirit companion anywhere where you maintain LoE (at the end of your turn).
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 8:18AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2009
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or range (burst 20)?
"close burst X" is not a range. The range for close powers is either 0 or infinity, so you most likely can move your spirit companion anywhere where you maintain LoE (at the end of your turn).
@Suoitidure: Are you sure about this? I don't know of any RAW sources, that would clarify this. But if this was true, then a shaman could sit on top of a tree in an open plain and sent his spirit miles away to attack random targets. Even if there was fog, the spirit could still operate, because the shaman doesn't need LoS to maintain the spirit (though he couldn't perceive possible targets, because technically the spirit has no senses of it's own).
@GelatinousOctahedron: I haven't come across any ranged spirit attacks on LV 5, but there might be some of them on higher levels. If i used such an attack, would it count as the shaman executing the ranged attack (and provoke OAs as normal)? The spirit keyword only refers to LoS and LoE.
As a side note, the spirit couldn't benefit from the shaman running, because the shaman can move it his (base) speed, or could it?
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 8:36AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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There are not many ranged spirit attacks. I think Hunter in the sky is the only other one. They should still provoke since you are the technically the one making the attack.
The power Roaming Mind, Roving Spirit says that the spirit has a normal range. That powers allows you to send your spirit more than 20 squares from you, but your spirit is unable to make attacks when more than 20 squares from the shaman while you are using the power. The power would make no sense if the spirit did not have a range of 20. The rules for range and close powers are not clear, but I think RAI that the spirit can not normally go more than 20 squares from you and still be in effect after the end of your turn.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 10:15AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
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@Suoitidure: Are you sure about this? I don't know of any RAW sources, that would clarify this. But if this was true, then a shaman could sit on top of a tree in an open plain and sent his spirit miles away to attack random targets. Even if there was fog, the spirit could still operate, because the shaman doesn't need LoS to maintain the spirit (though he couldn't perceive possible targets, because technically the spirit has no senses of it's own).
A close burst, by its nature, only dictates an area of effect. I lacks a range entry (because it does not normally need a range entry).
This has some akward side effects with some close burst/blast conjurations and zones. I was hoping for clarification on this subject in PH3, but it did not come.
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3 years ago ::
Apr 09, 2010 - 10:50AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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A close burst, by its nature, only dictates an area of effect. I lacks a range entry (because it does not normally need a range entry).
I'm not sure that's completely clear-cut.
"Attack Type and Range: The power's attack type and range appear on the same line as its action type. The attack types are melee, ranged, area, and close. Each attack type has rules for range and targeting, detailed on pages 270-273 of the Player's Handbook." (PH3, p. 214)
That sounds to me like all powers have a range. We just need to parse out what it is.
I think you can make arguments for either:
* The PH description of origin squares for close bursts is implicitly defining the range of the spell as being 0.
* If the power's range appears on the same line as its action type, then the only number we can point to as indicating range is the size of the area of effect.
* Since no range is explicitly listed, we'll just assume the range is infinite.
Argument 1 might work for zones but fails badly with conjurations. Argument 3 leaves us with nothing (and just assumes the most powerful interpretation without any basis; "undefined" might as well be 0 as infinity).
I think the argument that, for purposes of being within range of a movable zone/conjuration created with a close burst, at least one square of the zone/conjuration needs to be within range of you (as defined by the size of the area of effect of the power), is the one that makes the most sense.
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