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My inquiry to Customer Service:


dslatimore:  "Spending an action point is a free action which allows me to gain an  extra action, which I can choose to be a Standard, Move or Minor.

Dazed  allows me to only take a standard, a move, or a minor on my turn.  I  can still use any number of free actions.

If I am dazed and I  shift a square (using my move action) and spend an AP (free action) I  gain an extra action and decide it's a standard action.

Dazed  says I can take a standard, move, or a minor on my turn and I've already  used a move action, preventing me from also taking a standard action.

Nowhere  in the Action Point rules block does it state that I can take the extra  action I've gained.

Am I prevented from taking the action I  gained because I am dazed, or does using the action point also allow me  to take the action (even though the rules block doesn't state it  explicitly)?

(This has been an ongoing debate for 2 years  apparently, is it possible to get this Errata'd some how so the wording  is more clear?)"

Ethan: "Thank you for contacting Wizards of the Coast! This is  actually addressed in our FAQ for the Player's Handbook at wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg...

Question 29. Can I spend an action point while I'm dazed?

- Yes. Spending an action point is a free action, and you can take free  actions while you're dazed.

Please let me know if you need  anymore help!"

dslatimore: Thank you for your response. 

I understand that I can spend  the action point as a free action, and I understand that I can spend  free actions while dazed.  What I'm asking is whether I can take the  standard action gained from spending an action point while dazed or not  (after having already taken a move action that turn).  Or does daze  prevent me from taking the standard action granted by spending the  action point?

Troy: 1. Action point verse daze?

A. If you use an action point, while  dazed, you'll receive a total of two standard actions.  Action points  giving an extra, are an exception to dazed.

Please let me know if  you need anymore help!

Apr 7, 2010 -- 8:46AM, Artoomis wrote:

Apr 7, 2010 -- 7:52AM, dslatimore wrote:

...
Troy: 1. Action point verse daze?

A. If you use an action point, while dazed, you'll receive a total of two standard actions. Action points giving an extra, are an exception to dazed.

Please let me know if you need anymore help!

Thanks for posting this.

That should do it,.  the "official" explanation (as many of us have said all along).  Action Point creates an exception to Dazed that grants an extra action.

I don't suppose this convinces the naysayers??  (Naysayers being from the perspective of those who say CustServ is wrong and this shouldn't work per RAW)

I didn't say there are wrong, just I have hard time believing them when they have been wrong in the past.  Wrong about enough things that it makes me question.

I also said I wish they would show where they got the information

Apr 7, 2010 -- 9:49AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Apr 7, 2010 -- 6:25AM, Artoomis wrote:

First, there is no reason to curse.

Second, the CustServ is not wrong per RAW.  At wost, it is one of two valid interpretations.  At best, it is simply restating the obvious.

I'll be very interested in how you phrase your question and how well CustServ phrases the answer (which I confidently predict will not vary from what they already stated).  Keep in mind they will answer what you ask, but you might avoid too complicated a question as that likely not get a good answer.

WotC is generally not enthusiastic about supporting hyper-technical reading of the rules  such as the difference between gain and take.  They normally go with the most obvious plain reading, though there have been one or two exceptions that I cannot recall except to remember how surprised I was by the decision from them.

Cursing ? Oh, sorry Artoomis if i sounded angry or anything, we used bull....in french to mean crappy. I didn't mean to be mean. I am disapointed as i see a RAW differring from the answer Jamie provided. I can be wrong too. But i see the RAW here to be the most consistent, even if the outcome is less permissable.  I am just seeing more and more wrong answers from them that it start to be rediculous. This one is not the worse. I don't blame them specifically. I blame the whole Custserv program for not being supported adequatly. They are human being and can do mistakes on a personnal level. But answers they give can change the outcomes of many campaigns if and when handled independently. A chance we have a regroupement of all their consolidated answers in one place.

The difficulty i have with their answer letting extra actions being able to be taken above and beyond your existing capacity due to conditions is that it could leave one to be literally be able to take his extra action after spending an AP and a first action to be Interrupted by a Stunning effect. Because that extra action goes on top of what you can do (0+1 of 3 = 1). Or a Divine Oracle having used an AP on a previous Round and dragging his extra Move Action in subsequent Round becoming suddenly Stun or Uncouncious and say that he still have an extra Move Action. Extra Action should be independant of what you can possibly take. If a Condition affect your actions you can ake from Stun 0 to Dazed 1, that's what you can take. Normal actions allotement have te note indicating they can gain extra action with AP. Not Dazed. Dazed + AP as per the CS is (1 +1 of 3 = 2). And where i believe Dazed is a restriction, is because it say either a Standard a Move or a Minor is in regards to your total action available and not to it's whole enumeration. Ex. If i use a Standard and become Dazed via an Interrupt, i could not say now i use another Standard because Dazed say i can either take a Standard a Move or a Minor....it's with what you can do. In the exemple mentioned, you could only pick from a Move and a Minor having already taken your Standard.

Here my question. I tried to be as concise as possible and not direct an answer. Will see what comes out of it, hoping i will get an answer from a CS other than Jamie, since he already answered it. I think we sometimes shoot questions a at them that are difficult to answer and they started to avoid them instead of giving a wrong reply. This end up in seeing less and less intriguing answer being answered. I hope they will still answer Dazed + AP after the bullrush we did...LOL

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The PHB FAQ state that you can spend an Action Point while Dazed, but nothing is said about the capacity to take the extra action. As per PHB 286, an AP let you gain an extra action. Dazed restrict you to take either a Standard, a Move or a Minor (and Free's) but it can be argued that an Action Point let you take an extra action as well. If you gain an extra action, you'd now have let's say 2 Standards, 1 Move, 1 Minor (and Free's) but could you take more than what Dazed limit you ? It is still heavily debated on the Q&A Board (Dazed VS Action Point) and we would like to have more precision. I note that there are other benefits from spending an AP other than solely the extra actions, through various sources like Feats, Paragon Path Features etc...

So i ask you, can you take extra actions while Dazed ?

Thank you

Vel

this is a very proper way of questioning and hopefully the CS will get a better idea.

But even if it's a differnt answer(such as you can't take a differnt action) I still I have my doughts about it though

Apr 7, 2010 -- 11:21AM, Rian_king wrote:

Apr 7, 2010 -- 9:49AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Apr 7, 2010 -- 6:25AM, Artoomis wrote:

First, there is no reason to curse.

Second, the CustServ is not wrong per RAW.  At wost, it is one of two valid interpretations.  At best, it is simply restating the obvious.

I'll be very interested in how you phrase your question and how well CustServ phrases the answer (which I confidently predict will not vary from what they already stated).  Keep in mind they will answer what you ask, but you might avoid too complicated a question as that likely not get a good answer.

WotC is generally not enthusiastic about supporting hyper-technical reading of the rules  such as the difference between gain and take.  They normally go with the most obvious plain reading, though there have been one or two exceptions that I cannot recall except to remember how surprised I was by the decision from them.

Cursing ? Oh, sorry Artoomis if i sounded angry or anything, we used bull....in french to mean crappy. I didn't mean to be mean. I am disapointed as i see a RAW differring from the answer Jamie provided. I can be wrong too. But i see the RAW here to be the most consistent, even if the outcome is less permissable.  I am just seeing more and more wrong answers from them that it start to be rediculous. This one is not the worse. I don't blame them specifically. I blame the whole Custserv program for not being supported adequatly. They are human being and can do mistakes on a personnal level. But answers they give can change the outcomes of many campaigns if and when handled independently. A chance we have a regroupement of all their consolidated answers in one place.

The difficulty i have with their answer letting extra actions being able to be taken above and beyond your existing capacity due to conditions is that it could leave one to be literally be able to take his extra action after spending an AP and a first action to be Interrupted by a Stunning effect. Because that extra action goes on top of what you can do (0+1 of 3 = 1). Or a Divine Oracle having used an AP on a previous Round and dragging his extra Move Action in subsequent Round becoming suddenly Stun or Uncouncious and say that he still have an extra Move Action. Extra Action should be independant of what you can possibly take. If a Condition affect your actions you can ake from Stun 0 to Dazed 1, that's what you can take. Normal actions allotement have te note indicating they can gain extra action with AP. Not Dazed. Dazed + AP as per the CS is (1 +1 of 3 = 2). And where i believe Dazed is a restriction, is because it say either a Standard a Move or a Minor is in regards to your total action available and not to it's whole enumeration. Ex. If i use a Standard and become Dazed via an Interrupt, i could not say now i use another Standard because Dazed say i can either take a Standard a Move or a Minor....it's with what you can do. In the exemple mentioned, you could only pick from a Move and a Minor having already taken your Standard.

Here my question. I tried to be as concise as possible and not direct an answer. Will see what comes out of it, hoping i will get an answer from a CS other than Jamie, since he already answered it. I think we sometimes shoot questions a at them that are difficult to answer and they started to avoid them instead of giving a wrong reply. This end up in seeing less and less intriguing answer being answered. I hope they will still answer Dazed + AP after the bullrush we did...LOL

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The PHB FAQ state that you can spend an Action Point while Dazed, but nothing is said about the capacity to take the extra action. As per PHB 286, an AP let you gain an extra action. Dazed restrict you to take either a Standard, a Move or a Minor (and Free's) but it can be argued that an Action Point let you take an extra action as well. If you gain an extra action, you'd now have let's say 2 Standards, 1 Move, 1 Minor (and Free's) but could you take more than what Dazed limit you ? It is still heavily debated on the Q&A Board (Dazed VS Action Point) and we would like to have more precision. I note that there are other benefits from spending an AP other than solely the extra actions, through various sources like Feats, Paragon Path Features etc...

So i ask you, can you take extra actions while Dazed ?

Thank you

Vel

this is a very proper way of questioning and hopefully the CS will get a better idea.

But even if it's a differnt answer(such as you can't take a differnt action) I still I have my doughts about it though

The only difference I see is the length of the question. The other questions posed it pretty much the same. And the answer is pretty much going to be the same.

If a group doesn't like it, they are perfectly fine to not allow it.

Apr 7, 2010 -- 2:08PM, Rian_king wrote:

I liked it because he went into more detail about the situation then previous posters have

Lies.