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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 5:24PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Dec 29, 2009
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As the character builder is now informing me... and also saying that it doesn't work as an implement anymore also. Oddly though, it still says that my monk with magic unarmed strikes is legal.
Monk implements are weapons they are proficient with. The monk unarmed strike is a weapon they are proficient with.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 11:15PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2009
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As the character builder is now informing me... and also saying that it doesn't work as an implement anymore also. Oddly though, it still says that my monk with magic unarmed strikes is legal.
Monk implements are weapons they are proficient with. The monk unarmed strike is a weapon they are proficient with.
It would seem so, but the character builder has this to say about my previously built monk with a vicious monk unarmed strike +1:
"*UPDATE* The rules for monk unarmed strikes has [sic] changed since the playtest. Your unarmed strike no longer can be enchanted, nor does it function as an implement."
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3 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2010 - 11:21PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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I seriously wouldn't allow that, considering it's way more powerful than the brawler style fighter only feat that increases unarmed damage to 1d6 (spiked gauntlet to 1d8), and thats a class feature that focuses and unarmed attacks and grabs!
The difference is a fighter can enchant a spiked gauntlet. His fists will always just be +3 / 1d8. His spiked gauntlets would be better with the feat and a +1 enhancement bonus as they'd do more damage.
The only time this feat would prove worthwhile is in the first couple of levels, where magic items are scarce.
Ki foci tip the balance majorly back towards unarmed attacks.
I haven't read the monk hybrid rules, so here's a question.
How would a character with a monk unarmed strike interact with a Brawler style fighter? Would be be able to use the unarmed strike + the brawler attack bonus + a ki focus?
Both Monk Unarmed Strike and Brawler style are Hybrid talents, so the only way you could combine them is by Paragon Hybrid Multiclassing so you can get the second use of the Hybrid Talent feat.
To follow the current multiclass format, they'll need to come up with at least one other multiclass feat avilable to characters who take the first. Monk Unarmed Strike seems like the only good choice for this: I expect to see it when Psionic Power is released.
So with this assumption, a human fighter at level one could have a +3 weapon that deals 1d8 damage, spending his resources on ki foci. Around level 2 he could improve it to 1d10, no better than any fighter with a longsword/bastardsword in heroic. In paragon, this is a +4 proficiency weapon, and at epic this is a +6 weapon... WITH normal enhancement coming from the ki focus!
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3 years ago ::
Mar 20, 2010 - 6:02PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2008
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To follow the current multiclass format, they'll need to come up with at least one other multiclass feat avilable to characters who take the first. Monk Unarmed Strike seems like the only good choice for this: I expect to see it when Psionic Power is released.
So with this assumption, a human fighter at level one could have a +3 weapon that deals 1d8 damage, spending his resources on ki foci. Around level 2 he could improve it to 1d10, no better than any fighter with a longsword/bastardsword in heroic. In paragon, this is a +4 proficiency weapon, and at epic this is a +6 weapon... WITH normal enhancement coming from the ki focus!
Except that he'd have no use for a ki focus because a ki focus only adds to Monk attacks. As per the wording of the class, the multiclass feat in the book, and the like. Monk Unarmed strike is not augmented by a ki focus unless you have the Unarmed Combatant class feature from the Monk class. And they're not going to give you the Unarmed Combatant class feature unless you go hybrid. And even then, you're really just taking a feat to have a longsword for a fist.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 20, 2010 - 8:26PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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That's interestign that they did that with the Monk multiclass, especially since the Assassin multiclass has no such restriction on it's implement usage. It only says you can wield assassin implements, but Ki Focus can normally be used with any weapon attack according to it's own rules. So only the Monk MC has that rule to supercede that.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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3 years ago ::
Mar 20, 2010 - 9:48PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Except that he'd have no use for a ki focus because a ki focus only adds to Monk attacks. As per the wording of the class, the multiclass feat in the book, and the like. Monk Unarmed strike is not augmented by a ki focus unless you have the Unarmed Combatant class feature from the Monk class. And they're not going to give you the Unarmed Combatant class feature unless you go hybrid. And even then, you're really just taking a feat to have a longsword for a fist.
What? There's no such rules.
You simply have to be proficient in Ki Focus as an implement to gain its benefits with all your weapon attacks. The Monk's Unarmed Combatant is not a requirement for using Ki focuses.
You just don't have a Monk Unarmed Strike unless you have the Unarmed Combatant class feature.
Edit: Nevermind. Just noticed that they just copy/pasted the rules for every other class's multiclass clause without regards to how Ki Focus works.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 21, 2010 - 12:29PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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Except that he'd have no use for a ki focus because a ki focus only adds to Monk attacks. As per the wording of the class, the multiclass feat in the book, and the like. Monk Unarmed strike is not augmented by a ki focus unless you have the Unarmed Combatant class feature from the Monk class. And they're not going to give you the Unarmed Combatant class feature unless you go hybrid. And even then, you're really just taking a feat to have a longsword for a fist.
What? There's no such rules.
You simply have to be proficient in Ki Focus as an implement to gain its benefits with all your weapon attacks. The Monk's Unarmed Combatant is not a requirement for using Ki focuses.
You just don't have a Monk Unarmed Strike unless you have the Unarmed Combatant class feature.
Edit: Nevermind. Just noticed that they just copy/pasted the rules for every other class's multiclass clause without regards to how Ki Focus works.
That doesn't change the ability of the ki focus to sub its properties for a weapon's:
"Being able to use a ki focus as an implement means you can also use it with your weapon attacks."
If you have the monk MC feat, you can use a ki focus as an implement. You thus fulfill the conditions required to use it with your weapon attacks. All that the "for monk attacks" limits is it's use as an implement, ie, a sorcerer would not be able to use a ki focus as an implement for his sorcerer attacks.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 21, 2010 - 3:58PM
#38
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That doesn't change the ability of the ki focus to sub its properties for a weapon's:
"Being able to use a ki focus as an implement means you can also use it with your weapon attacks."
If you have the monk MC feat, you can use a ki focus as an implement. You thus fulfill the conditions required to use it with your weapon attacks. All that the "for monk attacks" limits is it's use as an implement, ie, a sorcerer would not be able to use a ki focus as an implement for his sorcerer attacks.
I don't follow. The monk m/c feat says, "You can wield monk implements when using monk powers."
How does that allow you to use a ki focus with a non-monk weapon power?
If it said, "You can wield monk implements (full stop)," then sure. But it specifically limits when and how you can use them in the m/c feat. (Or at least to my eye that's what it says.)
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3 years ago ::
Mar 21, 2010 - 4:22PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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That doesn't change the ability of the ki focus to sub its properties for a weapon's:
"Being able to use a ki focus as an implement means you can also use it with your weapon attacks."
If you have the monk MC feat, you can use a ki focus as an implement. You thus fulfill the conditions required to use it with your weapon attacks. All that the "for monk attacks" limits is it's use as an implement, ie, a sorcerer would not be able to use a ki focus as an implement for his sorcerer attacks.
I don't follow. The monk m/c feat says, "You can wield monk implements when using monk powers."
How does that allow you to use a ki focus with a non-monk weapon power?
If it said, "You can wield monk implements (full stop)," then sure. But it specifically limits when and how you can use them in the m/c feat. (Or at least to my eye that's what it says.)
All classes can use their implements when using powers from their own classes. That's how implements work. A Wizard can use a staff as an implement, but not when using a cleric power.
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3 years ago ::
Mar 21, 2010 - 4:34PM
#40
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All classes can use their implements when using powers from their own classes. That's how implements work. A Wizard can use a staff as an implement, but not when using a cleric power.
I'm not saying the ki focus won't work with monk powers. I'm saying the ki focus won't work with non-monk weapon powers (which I believe was someone's point earlier).
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