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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 5:15AM
#851
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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It buffs your defences against the attack. You do it on a marked monster, it's at -4 to hit you. LIkely to miss. And even if it does hit, it's a guaranteed second swing from someone. It's a solid, if somewhat situational, power.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 5:23AM
#852
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2007
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It buffs your defences against the attack. You do it on a marked monster, it's at -4 to hit you. LIkely to miss. And even if it does hit, it's a guaranteed second swing from someone. It's a solid, if somewhat situational, power.
It is not a guaranteed swing. Thats the thing. My striker only gets a swing if the attack misses. I think id rather take a guarateed swing from my striker than a power that may give me a striker swing, but could also give the MONSTER a swing and only give a puny defender punishment as compensation.
I am really missing something? The way I read this it should be dark blue, tops, if even that. At least it is wildly inferior to On My Mark that it happens to share level with.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 8:17AM
#853
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Yes you are missing something, but I understand your point. Here is the power: Provoke Overextension You goad the enemy into pressing too far, setting up your ally’s counterstrike. Encounter  Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. AC Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and the target must make a basic attack against you as a free action. If the basic attack misses, an ally of yours can make a basic attack against the target as a free action. Bravura Presence: You gain a bonus to your AC against the target’s basic attack equal to your Charisma modifier and your ally gains the same bonus to his or her basic attack’s damage roll.
Ok, you get your swing. If the target is marked, as it should be with proper setup, the target is forced to attack you with its MBA, which might not be any good. That attack is -2 - (your CHR mod) probably at least -5 to hit. As an immediate interrupt, your defender takes his attack. Since his attack is an interrupt, it might negate the enemies attack entirely, say by hitting him and sliding him out of range, like a Paladin with Commanding Vow. Or it might prone him, for an additional -2 to hit, a total of -7, or many other things. That makes a great chance at a miss. Or, you could be (and should be) using a reach weapon against an enemy without reach, then his attack is an auto-miss. When that happens, an ally gets basic attack against the target. Thats when you striker gets involved, it a basic attack, so a ranged striker can get involved also.
With proper setup, you get an attack on the enemy, plus defender punishment, plus about a %70-80 chance minimum of a third attack. If the defender is a fighter for example, the enemy takes 2W + str from you, and then fighters MBA (w +str) twice. Or you could have your striker hit him from somewhere with a damage bonus on the roll too.
Without a proper defender, which no one seems to play anymore, you are correct, it is a little better than Devastating Offensive. It is not a guaranteed swing, although it should be at least a %50 shot at another swing. But with a defender that moves them out of reach or with a reach weapon that is out of their reach, it is %100 a triple hitter.
It is definately a teamwork power though.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 8:40AM
#854
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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Not sure that nulifying the enemies attack or preventing the enemy from attacking counts as a miss. A miss is defined in the PHB as the attack roll being lower than the target defense.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 8:43AM
#855
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2006
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Not sure that nulifying the enemies attack or preventing the enemy from attacking counts as a miss. A miss is defined in the PHB as the attack roll being lower than the target defense.
Correct. Doing this from outside the enemy's reach does absolutely nothing - they cannot make an attack against you, so the clause of "missing" cannot occur.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 9:32AM
#856
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Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2011
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Good point. That said, it's also an excellent encounter power to use when you have some other defense buff going on, or a penalty on the targeted enemy.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 10:38AM
#857
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The 'best case' scenario with provoke overextension is probably with charisma paladins (which as far as my experience go are the most common defenders). In case that paladin is also a champion of order, things get really rediculous really fast.
I attack. The target is at -7 to -10 to hit from your charisma + paladin mark. Since the opponent makes an attack, divine challenge deals damage. Then, the paladin gets an opportunity attack, then an immediate reaction attack. If the enemy somehow hits, price of cowardice or guardians counter as an immediate interrupt gives it a further -5 to hit. After this, he gets a free attack.
The end result of this power with champion of order paladin is one attack for you, 3 attacks + mark punishment from the paladin. If that paladin happens to have virtuous strike with the sun domain, chances are you can near instantly kill a mob with it.
Definitely deserves sky blue.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 11:10AM
#858
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2001
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What lunattic described happened almost precisely in my last session. I used PO on a dire honeybadger marked by the Chaladin, he used Price of Cowardice, and then the Ranger took her shot. We did more damage with PO than I've ever done with a Daily, and I'll be able to do it next Encounter, too. Sky Blue; no doubt.
The Great Gray Skwid
Humblest Mollusk on the Net
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 11:27AM
#859
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I'm going to take the contrarian view here. The only advantage PO has on On My Mark is the ability to force a defender punishment, and is actually inferior in MBA-granting respect since unlike OMM's effect line, it is predicated on your hit and the monster's miss. If we attach baseline accuracy values at a more than a reasonable 75% and 60% each, that's still a roughly 50% chance that you're not granting your striker that extra MBA.
Forcing a defender punishment at the cost of a MBA is also, by definition, a situational benefit, since it really only works with 3/5 defender builds, or else at the cost of substantial punishment-stacking encounter resources that the defender might have use elsewhere. That to me, says dark blue, not sky blue, and I agree with the assessment that On My Mark is an equally competitive if not even more universally viable choice.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 17, 2012 - 12:10PM
#860
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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To be fair, most defenders are gonna take Guardian too. Having an MBA punishment is glorious, even once a fight.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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