Do you have a level-by-level break-down of what feats to take when to make this build work? It sounds like a cool idea for an online game I'm applying for.
Grab attacks always require a hand free. A garrote is a two-handed weapon. You do not make grab attacks with garrrotes, instead you get to deal damage with it if you grab while wielding one.
The only possible way the rules work is if your hands count as being free (for purposes of grabbing) when using a garrotte.
Isn't that general overriding specific? You're arguing that the general rule (grabbing requiring one hand) modifies the specific rule (garrotes allow you to deal damage with a grab) to imply all the benefits of having one hand free?
Honestly, you read it that way?
I don't see any other way for it to work. Garrotes have to leave your "hands free" for grabbing.
As I said at the top of the post, Brawlers are currently broken and a rules mess. WOTC is going to have to errata them anyway, so it's kind of pointless to speculate for now what they'll come up with. Most logically, Brawlers would get the bonuses when they have weapon & hand free, or are grabbing someone.
Here's the other way for it to work... the RAW way.
Specific overrides general.
Generally speaking, you must have a hand free to perform a grab attack.
The garrote weapon specifically lets you make a grab when you're wielding it (as a two-handed weapon) and have no hands free.
I think the brawling/grappling builds are unwieldy and virtually unplayable currently. As an example, in addition to the myriad other things brought up in this and other threads, I for one wonder why you're required to be wielding a weapon in one hand as a brawler. Why would you not have both hands free? Yes, I understand that spiked gauntlets can be a work-around for this, but that's just what it is - a work around to get past a stupid restriction.
Here's the other way for it to work... the RAW way.
Specific overrides general.
Generally speaking, you must have a hand free to perform a grab attack.
The garrote weapon specifically lets you make a grab when you're wielding it (as a two-handed weapon) and have no hands free.
I think the brawling/grappling builds are unwieldy and virtually unplayable currently. As an example, in addition to the myriad other things brought up in this and other threads, I for one wonder why you're required to be wielding a weapon in one hand as a brawler. Why would you not have both hands free? Yes, I understand that spiked gauntlets can be a work-around for this, but that's just what it is - a work around to get past a stupid restriction.
Yes, you can use a garrot to grab someone, but you can't use any of the attacks that "require 1 hand free" while you have a garrot. So the signiture brawler powers won't work, though some of the utilities will.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Here's the other way for it to work... the RAW way.
The garrote weapon specifically lets you make a grab when you're wielding it (as a two-handed weapon) and have no hands free.
No, there's no exception given for the garrote. Technically, by RAW, the item doesn't work at all. And technically, by the RAW, Brawlers lose their +1 to AC and +2 to Fort when grabbing someone.
That's why I gave my list of sane list of RAI rules at the top. Otherwise these features are insanely stupid.
I'm fuzzy on something with Improved Grab. It gives you a +4 feat bonus to hit when using the grab action. However, isn't that something seperate from having Grab in the rider of your powers? I wouldn't get the +4 to grappling strike, would I?
I'm fuzzy on something with Improved Grab. It gives you a +4 feat bonus to hit when using the grab action. However, isn't that something seperate from having Grab in the rider of your powers? I wouldn't get the +4 to grappling strike, would I?
The way I read it was that the feat only working with the normal Grab action.
I would like to see a the feat to increase your Fortitude and Reflex defenses againt escape attempts when you're holding someone in a grab (or restrained). As it stands, it's way too easy to escape someone's grasp; since you can choose what skill to roll against their weaker defense value.
I'm fuzzy on something with Improved Grab. It gives you a +4 feat bonus to hit when using the grab action. However, isn't that something seperate from having Grab in the rider of your powers? I wouldn't get the +4 to grappling strike, would I?
The way I read it was that the feat only working with the normal Grab action.
I would like to see a the feat to increase your Fortitude and Reflex defenses againt escape attempts when you're holding someone in a grab (or restrained). As it stands, it's way too easy to escape someone's grasp; since you can choose what skill to roll against their weaker defense value.
The feat Inescapable Hold, I believe, somewhat addresses this, in that it forces all grab escape attempts to target your Fortitude. Then you can just stack up on Fort like the venerable Mr. Stupid at the expense of your other defenses, and have very difficult-to-escape grabs. Barring forced movement, teleportation, etc. Ways around that too, though.
