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3 years ago ::
Feb 24, 2010 - 3:21PM
#141
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2009
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I have no issue with them saying it is how it might be intended...but "as intended" is not how it "is written". I have agreed it is probably RaI, I just immediately let them know it is NOT RaW. It is not how it actually is written to work...until an update comes out and it is changed.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 24, 2010 - 4:15PM
#142
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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The problem, DropThemBones, is that I, as well as most people in this discussion it would seem, can see that the "minions are destroyed when they take any damage" statement is just a reminder regarding them having only 1 hp. The reading of that as a hard and fast rule that applies even if they have temp hp is ruleslawyering that statement even if it's not your intention. You're still reading into it in a very strict literal interpretation that doesn't allow for the statement in question to be clarification/reminder rather than a rule.
This. That's why i said "plain reading of the Rules" because yes the rules say Miniions are destroyed when they take damage. And the latter is true of any monsters remaining 1 HP. Like i said, chipping out THP is taking damage. I do believe. Or else, you'd be barred to use Immediates Actions triggerring on taking damage and it shouldn't. But where i disagree, is that the sentence Miniions are destroyed when they take damage is a reference that they have 1 HP as a general rules. And that the Specific Ruling on THP take precedence here. Same for Resist which let you take less, you'd take 0 damage with an enought Resist, there is even a note that negative damage dosen't heal you, meaning you do take the damage, whatever how much they are. So you could take 0 damage yes.
Yes they are destroyed when they take damage, because it normally reduce them to 0. If something pad them off and insulate them against damage, be it Resist or THP, they won't die of any damage insufficient to reduce them to 0, that is, their actual HP value.
Developpers, CSR, published modules all show they are in accord with this application of the Rule.
I won't dig deeper. It suffice me to believe this is the good way of handling Minions.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 years ago ::
Feb 24, 2010 - 7:32PM
#143
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2009
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The problem with that though is that though Plauge is that it is not needed. Nothing need be said about them having 1HP and if they get hit they are destroyed. It is the generic rule...it plain and simple that if it has only 1hp it would be destroyed when it takes HP damage. But they make a specific mention of the minion specific rules.
And what speicif THP rule are you talking about. That you are not damaged with THP? I don't think that is true either as they do say that you are taking damage when you get hit and it reduces your THP.
Developers off the record (and it has been shown that off the record comments have been shown to be NOT what is what the rules are)
CSR (not the most accurate and much, and corretly, maligned)
Published Modules are not rule sources (and the fact that there have been many things "off" about how the published modules do things)
Let me let you in on something....and this is purely theoretical...I think that there are some things that WotC does not care to put in eratta...they see no need to clarify and it does not bother them as to how people play...certain things do not become an issue in organized gameplay and until it does, it does not find itself in eratta. This is one. This reads very clear in the books...is it the way they planned it up? Maybe not, their intented use might be different. But it is not written as such. Wanna change how it is written? Get it in an update. Pure and Simple. Until then the books tell a different story than what you are saying.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 25, 2010 - 8:24AM
#144
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Can't believe I'm rejoining this.
Yes, it says minions are destroyed. Please cite the text which says destroyed means not bloodied. The definition of bloodied is below half their hp, which the minions are. (As was exstablished pages ago the lack of a bloodied value is a point, but for many of us, not strong enough to ignore the clear definition given of bloodied). Destroyed has nothing to do with it. Destroyed is not a defined term in the game, and certainly does not have the "means not bloodied" attached to it, thus it does not overide the rules fo bloodied.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 25, 2010 - 8:33AM
#145
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2009
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Can't believe I'm rejoining this.
Yes, it says minions are destroyed. Please cite the text which says destroyed means not bloodied. The definition of bloodied is below half their hp, which the minions are. (As was exstablished pages ago the lack of a bloodied value is a point, but for many of us, not strong enough to ignore the clear definition given of bloodied). Destroyed has nothing to do with it. Destroyed is not a defined term in the game, and certainly does not have the "means not bloodied" attached to it, thus it does not overide the rules fo bloodied.
Maybe you shouldn't have rejoined it.
Your point is not completely invalid but please do not twist things and call them definitions. The given definition of bloodied is not "below half their hp" just because you want it to be. The written definition of bloodied is "at or below their bloodied value". This is the point which you have made every effort to ignore or refute with no basis but your opinion of the intent. There is nothing that excludeds minions from the general rule of creatures are bloodied when their current hp is at or below their bloodied value.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 25, 2010 - 8:44AM
#146
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And the definition of "your bloodied value" is immediatly defined in the exact same spot as half your hp, rounded down.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 25, 2010 - 10:18AM
#147
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How/why is this argument still raging on? Both side have given their points, and counter points. The debate is over all that is happening now is posturing and name calling evident by the Moderators involvement. Can’t all parties agree there is some confusion/different interpretations in the rules, accept that they may be wrong as equally as they may be right?
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3 years ago ::
Feb 25, 2010 - 12:41PM
#148
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2003
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How/why is this argument still raging on? Both side have given their points, and counter points. The debate is over all that is happening now is posturing and name calling evident by the Moderators involvement. Can’t all parties agree there is some confusion/different interpretations in the rules, accept that they may be wrong as equally as they may be right?
In an argument such as this, the most difficulty thing for both sides seems to be to agree that, per the RAW, they can both be correct because both have solid rules support..
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3 years ago ::
Feb 25, 2010 - 4:14PM
#149
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2007
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How/why is this argument still raging on? Both side have given their points, and counter points. The debate is over all that is happening now is posturing and name calling evident by the Moderators involvement. Can’t all parties agree there is some confusion/different interpretations in the rules, accept that they may be wrong as equally as they may be right?
In an argument such as this, the most difficulty thing for both sides seems to be to agree that, per the RAW, they can both be correct because both have solid rules support..
 Blasphemy!!
I am the God of Dragons!
Hail Wizards and it's mighty awesomeness for finally addressing some of the issues we had with the old forums and website! It's about damn time this place got an overhaul!
Wahoo!
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3 years ago ::
Feb 25, 2010 - 7:15PM
#150
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Date Joined:
Oct 12, 2009
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Can't believe I'm rejoining this.
Yes, it says minions are destroyed. Please cite the text which says destroyed means not bloodied. The definition of bloodied is below half their hp, which the minions are. (As was exstablished pages ago the lack of a bloodied value is a point, but for many of us, not strong enough to ignore the clear definition given of bloodied). Destroyed has nothing to do with it. Destroyed is not a defined term in the game, and certainly does not have the "means not bloodied" attached to it, thus it does not overide the rules fo bloodied.
Is this to me? I have no opinion about the whole bloodied @ 0 debate.
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