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Even if you never cast a spell though a holy symbol, it doesn't mean their useless to you.  Sure the vast majority have "when you hit with this symbol", but there's still some good uses to get out of it (and i don't mean makeing an improvised attack with one).

Note that you actually have to be able to use a holy symbol inorder to benifit, you may need to spend a feat.  But if you've already MC'd cleric for a once per day heal, or are an Str-cleric/avenger that takes no impliment powers, then look here for more bonuses.

I'm assuming that daily item powers arn't in high demand.

*Needs to worship a specific deity.
! Not (just) a daily power.

*Nonagon of Kol Korran (EPG) (lvl 2):  Near impossible to control, but you only need the lvl 2 version.

*Ontatar's Forge  (EPG) (lvl 2): Cheap versions don't add much.  It also only works for weapons, which limit's it's use with big area attacks.

Symbol of Excellence (365) (lvl 2): Solid boost, especially in the later levels.

Symbol of Life (PHB) (lvl 2): Good for leaders who arn't using their daily's for anythign else.

*Leaves of Death (EPG) (lvl 3): Controlable, often just when you need it.

!*Psalter of Aureon (EPG) (lvl 3): Skill bonus, but not to great skills.

Symbol of Hope (PHB) (lvl 3): Carry around several +1's.

Symbol of the Dragon (365) (lvl 3): Good effect, but looses potentcy over levels.

!Symbol of the Holy Nimbus (AV2) (lvl 4): Usefull for Str clerics, though pretty much useless for anyone else

!Symbol of Daring (AV2) (lvl 5): Nice boots, though you need to keep it somewhat leveled to keep the effect noticeable.

!Symbol of Scorned Fate (388) (lvl 5): A round about way to get an "extra" saving throw, good for anyone.

!*Spirit Reliquary (EPG) (lvl 7): Also has a small passive bonus as well as a useable daily. The only offensive one for yourself.

!Symbol of Gajz (AV2) (lvl 7): Only for the set bonus.  Carry around 5 for skill challenges.

Symbol of Shared Healing (AV2) (lvl 7): Good for parties with no leaders.

*Hearth of Boldrei (EPG) (lvl 8): Doesn't do anything worthwhile, and it doesn't always do it.

!*Sheaf of Arawai (EPG) (lvl 8): Fun RP property, the daily is slightly better then the symbol of hope.

!Candle of Invocation (MME) (lvl 8): Encounter Skill boost.  Better leveled, but still useful at 8.  Gold for skill focused campaigns.

!Symbol of the Champions Code (AV2) (lvl 8): Might take a bit to set-up, but you can effectivly stun a creature.  The property is for paladins only.

!Symbol of Courage (365) (lvl 9): A bit too situaltional.

Symbol of Unified Defense (AV2) (lvl 9): Could be a pretty big boost, but it's a bit situational.

Symbol of Victory (PHB) (lvl 9): Hard to beat an extra action.

*Domino of Olladra (EPG) (lvl 10): The odds arn't usualy in your favor, however if you got a PP/ED or something that let's you pre-roll a d20 (sage of ages), or someone hit's on a 3, then you can just hand out crits.

!Necklace of Prayer Beads (MME) (lvl 10) (rare): Nice and versitile, and as an encounter.

!Convert's Symbol (AV2) (lvl 13): No handed arcane impliment has it's uses.  It's daily is usefull for emergencies, but it's not a good oppertunity cost.

!Symbol of Secruity (MotP) (lvl 13): Has it's uses, just not often.

*The Fearcatcher (D 390) (lvl 13): Massive bonus to intimidate.

!Phylactery of Faithfulness (MME) (lvl 14) (rare): Negate an attack per encounter.  Slightly Better leveled.

!Symbol of Divine Light (AV2) (lvl 17): It's pretty useless, unless you (or an ally) build around radiant damage/vunerability.

Symbol of Sustanance (AV) (lvl 17): Keep someone Stunned for another turn.

Symbol of Defense (AV2) (lvl 18): Very good and likely to be usefull, carry a few of them when they become cheap.

Symbol of Reflection (AV2) (lvl 24): Would be sky blue if it was cheaper.

May I suggest source (book, magazine) references?

Symbol of Gajz doesn't seem like it should be on this list.

Symbol of Security could be rated higher: it's an immediate reaction encounter power, so not much cost to use.  For the right party it could be frequently useful.

Feb 13, 2010 -- 10:27PM, mellored wrote:

*Domino of Ollander (lvl 10): The odds arn't in your favor, however if you got a PP/ED or something that let's you pre-roll a d20 (sage of ages), then you can just hand out crits.

It is Domino of Olladra, and it would work well with Dice of Auspicious Fortune from Dragon 381.

Also, I think you should add a note to let people know that they need to be a Paladin, Cleric, or Avenger, or multiclass to one of those classes in order to use a holy symbol's powers and properties (PH page 236).

I did some playing around with a martial defender/striker hybrid and  the following holy symbols: Orb of Light, Ioun Stone of Divine  Knowledge, and Symbol of Defense. The Character Builder thinks this works - if the character is wielding the holy symbol, not just wearing it in the Symbol slot.

For whatever that's worth.

I found the following symbols with interesting properties (I didn't look at powers.)

• Convert's Symbol (13, AV2) is of interest to Arcane implement users.
• Ioun Stone of Divine Knowledge (25, AV2) enhances Int-based skill   checks.
• Orb of Light (Heroic, Open Grave) gives you the Supernal language.
• *Psalter of Aureon (3, Eberron Player) enhances knowledge-skill   checks.
• *Sheaf of Arawai (8, Eberron Player) excuses you from meals.
• *Spirit Reliquary (7, Eberron Player) enhances saves against charm   and fear effects.
• Symbol of Courage (9, Dragon 365) enhances saves against fear.
• Symbol of Daring (5, AV2) enhances your allies' action-point   attacks.
• Symbol of Divine Light (17, AV2) increases - but does not create -   vulnerability to radiant damage in an area around you.
• Symbol of the Radiant Flame (8, AV2) is of interest to Primal   implement users.
• Talisman of Al'Akbar (Paragon, DMG2) enhances all healing   you do to other characters. Including the Heal skill check.

Hm... since I'm wielding this holy symbol... suppose I use it as an improvised weapon and hit an enemy with it. Does that count as "hit with an attack delivered by this implement"? If so, then see *Fist of Kord, Symbol of Dedication, Symbol of Perseverance, Symbol of Renewal, Symbol of Reproach, and Symbol of Resilience. The Symbol of Perseverance is particularly nice, as it would allow my fighter|ranger hybrid to bring a dying ally back into combat - without anyone even spending a healing surge.

I would guess that won't work though.

We could apply the same sort of logic and find interesting properties of other implements too.

Ki Focus:

• Hawk's Talon (14, Dragon 382) helps charging.

Orbs:

• Moran's Eye (14, King of the Trollhaunt Warrens) enhances Arcana checks. (Note: you still have to wield it.)
• Orb of Judicious Conjuration (3, AV) might be of interest to any sort of caster with conjuration spells.
• Orb of the Planes (23, Planes) would be of interest in multiplanar campaigns, particularly to ritual casters.
• Skull of Sartine (Assault on Nightwyrm Forest) gives +2 History, Darkvision, resist 10 necrotic, resist 10 fire

Rods:

• Arkhosian Scepter (12, Races:Dragonborn) is something any Dragonborn with a free hand should want.
• Pelor's Scepter (29, AV2) is for divine casters that favor radiant damage; it makes their radiant attacks (through the rod) Brutal.
• Rod of Dispater (28, Planes) is a fully functioning heavy mace with a push/daze effect and an acid-spitting effect.
• Rod of Seven Parts (DMG2) enhances your healing powers and selected skills. When you have all seven parts it becomes a melee weapon.

Staffs:

• Audaviator (Epic, Kingdom of the Ghouls) lets you reduce forced movement, enhances Arcana, and has a couple of teleportation-related properties.
• Battle Staff (4, Eberron Player) has extended crit range when used as a melee weapon.
• Crook of Remembrance (18, Dragon 377) enhances Insight and Intimidate.
• Defensive Staff (2, AV) enhances Fort, Ref, and Will.
• Mnemonic Staff (2, AV) enhances monster-knowledge skill checks.
• Staff of Corrosion (18, AV) adds 1d6 acid damage to melee hits.
• Staff of Earthen Might (3, Dungeon 171) enhances Athletics checks and Strength skill checks under certain conditions.
• Staff of the Serpent (7, AV) adds 1d6 poison damage to melee hits.
• Summoner's Staff (7, AV2) helps any summoner.

Tomes:

• Tome of Forty Steps (3, Arcane Power) enhances speed of your summoned creatures.

Totems:

• Fickle Twilight Totem (9, Eberron Player) enhances Bluff and Stealth.
• Oalian's Balance Totem (2, Eberron Player) enhances Diplomacy and Nature.
• Totem of Enduring Vigilance (9, Eberron Player) enhances Arcana and Perception.
• Totem of the Harrier's Claws (12, AV2) gives you combat advantage over creatures taking ongoing damage.
• Totem of the Night (12, AV2) gives low-light vision; if you already have that, it gives darkvision.
• Watchful Spirit Totem (3, PH2) enhances Perception.
• Wildfire Totem (4, AV2) enhances saves against ongoing Fire damage.

Wands:

• Iron Wand (24, AV2) enhances Strength for breaking certain objects.

Now since you (apparently) have to actually wield these things to get any use from them, most of them (excluding some of the staffs and rods) would be an awful nuisance for most characters to use in combat. So I see them being more useful in skill challenges. How common are those in your game? In the game I'm in they are quite frequent; I could see my character wandering around for days with a Crook of Remembrance in one hand and an Oalian's Balance Totem in the other, hardly touching his swords. And your healbot needs a Talisman of Al'Akbar.

For implements, you only gain the benefits of their properties and powers if you are a member of a class that can use them as an implement.  Unless of course the item specifies otherwise, like the Arkhosian Scepter.

Feb 14, 2010 -- 3:03AM, Melos wrote:

For implements, you only gain the benefits of their properties and powers if you are a member of a class that can use them as an implement.  Unless of course the item specifies otherwise, like the Arkhosian Scepter.

Agreed.

I thought the base assumption was that this was for characters that have MC'd into a divine class, but who don't actually plan to use a holy symbol.  I see now that wasn't actually stated. 

Wasn't it also said carrying multiple implements would cause them all not to work or something along those lines?

PHB pg 236

Holy Symbols
If you are a member of a class that can use a holy symbol as an implement, you can apply the enhancement bonus of a holy symbol to the attack rolls and the damage rolls of any of your powers from that class that have the implement keyword, and you can use a holy symbol’s properties and powers. Members of other classes gain no benefit from wearing or holding a holy symbol.
A holy symbol represents your deity and takes the shape of an aspect of the god. (See pages 21–22 for the symbols of the good, lawful good, and unaligned deities.) As with most other implements, you can’t make melee attacks with a holy symbol.
Unlike other implements, you need only to wear a holy symbol for its property or power to function. If you are wearing or holding more than one holy symbol, none of your symbols function.

Emphasis mine

Guess i missed that fact.  I'll have to make a note of it up top.  Still it's nice to have a list of usefull items to hang around your neck.

Symbol of Gajz doesn't seem like it should be on this list.

It's there for it's set bonus.  Of course having everyone MC to a divine class might be a bit much, so i'll knock it down to purple.

Symbol of Security could be rated higher: it's an immediate reaction encounter power, so not much cost to use.  For the right party it could be frequently useful.

Yes it's an encounter, but i don't see it being usefull enough.  If you had lots of other dialy item uses then it could be more usefull, but that's still a purple (not usefull in most cases).

Everyone here seems to agree that a holy symbol (that doesn't serve as some other sort of implement and can't be used as a melee weapon) should do absolutely nothing for a character who doesn't use holy symbols as implements.

I reported a character builder bug about this. The response:

That is working correctly.  You do not need to be proficient in an  implement to gain its property and power bonuses.

I am re-questioning this because it isn't just a matter of non-proficiency, it's a matter of not being ALLOWED to use the thing.

I am also re-questioning because if the static bonuses SHOULD apply, then (for a holy symbol) wielding the implement should not be required.

Further, I'm asking about implement powers that are not conditioned on using the implement or on class. Such as the Symbol of Hope (Daily, immediate reaction, when you or an ally within five squares is hit with an effect that a save can end, you or the ally gains +5 bonus to saves against that effect).

PHB p. 236, "Members of other classes gain no benefit from wearing or holding a holy symbol."

There are similar lines for each of the base implement types in the PHB: Orbs, Rods, Wands, Staffs (with changes here due to them also being weapons).

So I think they are wrong both about holy symbols and about implements in general.  Also, no one is 'proficient' in implements, Arcane Implement Proficiency notwithstanding.

Feb 15, 2010 -- 10:06PM, Dirge-Overdrive wrote:

PHB p. 236, "Members of other classes gain no benefit from wearing or holding a holy symbol."

There are similar lines for each of the base implement types in the PHB: Orbs, Rods, Wands, Staffs (with changes here due to them also being weapons).

So I think they are wrong both about holy symbols and about implements in general.  Also, no one is 'proficient' in implements, Arcane Implement Proficiency notwithstanding.

The only example that I can think of that breaks this is Star of Corellon. Arcane classes can use it as an implement for their powers.

Hybrid classes that include a holy symbol using class of course can use them for both classes as well.

Feb 15, 2010 -- 10:13PM, jovani wrote:

Feb 15, 2010 -- 10:06PM, Dirge-Overdrive wrote:

PHB p. 236, "Members of other classes gain no benefit from wearing or holding a holy symbol."

There are similar lines for each of the base implement types in the PHB: Orbs, Rods, Wands, Staffs (with changes here due to them also being weapons).

So I think they are wrong both about holy symbols and about implements in general.  Also, no one is 'proficient' in implements, Arcane Implement Proficiency notwithstanding.

The only example that I can think of that breaks this is Star of Corellon. Arcane classes can use it as an implement for their powers.

Hybrid classes that include a holy symbol using class of course can use them for both classes as well.

There's also one that can be used for primal chacaters, but it still had a "when you hit with this holy symbol" power.  This guide is for anyone who wouldn't normaly use there holy symbol slot (but can).

Added the sources as requested.

Also, does anyone know if Symbol of Damnation/Brilance/Mortality/Censure/Astral Might/Confontation/Mask of Melora/Dedication would work for any attack?

Property: On a crit the target....

Doesn't say "with this holy symbol", though the "roll xd10 instead of xd6" is kinda gray.

Emblem of Dol Dorn (EPG) (lvl 3): Encounter, when bloodied, add Str mod to attacks untill end of next turn. (only works for followers of Dol dorn or soverign host).

Symbol of Vigor (AV2) (lvl 7): +1 attacks while not injured (fantastic for a caster who stays in the back and rarely gets attacked)

Fist of Cord (AV)(lvl x): adds enhancment to melee damage after hitting with implement power (stacks with weapon enhancement)

Question.. could a monk|paladin use a holy symbol with monk weapon powers?

hybrid monk = holy symbol now works as implement.. so monk implements are now.. holy symbol + proficient weapons..

I picture him swinging the holy symbol around (a metal fist on a short chain).. and "punching" as if it were a weapon. (but with no proficiency bonus.. since it's not actually a weapon, or treat it as an improvised weapon?).

If that works.. dual wield Fist of Cord + Unarmed Strike.. on a Str Based Monk|Paladin = Jacky Chan
It would be even better if they add a way to become "proficient" with improvised weapons..

Feb 18, 2010 -- 8:28PM, haferka wrote:

Emblem of Dol Dorn (EPG) (lvl 3): Encounter, when bloodied, add Str mod to attacks untill end of next turn. (only works for followers of Dol dorn or soverign host).

Symbol of Vigor (AV2) (lvl 7): +1 attacks while not injured (fantastic for a caster who stays in the back and rarely gets attacked)

Fist of Cord (AV)(lvl x): adds enhancment to melee damage after hitting with implement power (stacks with weapon enhancement)

All of those require you to attack with the holy symbol.  Which defeats the purpose of this guide.

Feb 18, 2010 -- 8:50PM, haferka wrote:

Question.. could a monk|paladin use a holy symbol with monk weapon powers?

Yes, all monk powers are impilments, but this guide only helps if you plan on using a ki-focus as your main impliment and want to figure out what to do with your symbol slot.

Though supposedly there could be a similar guide for ki-focuses.

Added to the char-op wiki.

I don't think there's been any update for this.

*Domino of Olladra (EPG) (lvl 10): The odds arn't in your favor, however if you got a PP/ED or something that let's you pre-roll a d20 (sage of ages), then you can just hand out crits.

The odds aren't in your favor? I've seen characters hit on the roll of a 3 with the right bonusses; that's the time for this power. It's awesome when you have accurate allies or can stack on a really high to-hit bonus and he rolls low.

Interesting thread.  

May 24, 2010 -- 7:34AM, Pluisjen wrote:

*Domino of Olladra (EPG) (lvl 10): The odds arn't in your favor, however if you got a PP/ED or something that let's you pre-roll a d20 (sage of ages), then you can just hand out crits.

The odds aren't in your favor? I've seen characters hit on the roll of a 3 with the right bonusses; that's the time for this power. It's awesome when you have accurate allies or can stack on a really high to-hit bonus and he rolls low.

Interesting thread.  

Noted, and thx.

Added

!Symbol of Scorned Fate (388) (lvl 5): A round about way to get an "extra" saving throw, good  for anyone.

It seems as if this guide got too much attention from WotC. They changed some daily powers in the new Dungeon Masters Kit to only work after an attack through the symbol.

It's a pity, but at least I could put my Symbol of Life to good use once. But with having only one implement attack I don't know, if it makes sense to keep it.

Oct 27, 2010 -- 11:24PM, TorianT wrote:

It seems as if this guide got too much attention from WotC. They changed some daily powers in the new Dungeon Masters Kit to only work after an attack through the symbol.

It's a pity, but at least I could put my Symbol of Life to good use once. But with having only one implement attack I don't know, if it makes sense to keep it.

I don't see any issue with it in the compendium.  It's still minor actoin to boost healing.

Oct 28, 2010 -- 8:17AM, mellored wrote:

I don't see any issue with it in the compendium.  It's still minor actoin to boost healing.

The Compendium won't have been updated with the changes in the Essentials Dungeon Master's Kit yet.

How about the "Symbol of the Holy Nimbus"? It requires Healing Word,
but not attacking with the symbol, so it works fine for Strength Clerics.

Mar 10, 2011 -- 9:35PM, Dodecahedron wrote:

How about the "Symbol of the Holy Nimbus"? It requires Healing Word,
but not attacking with the symbol, so it works fine for Strength Clerics.

Added.

Feb 14, 2010 -- 2:28AM, warrl wrote:

And your healbot needs a Talisman of Al'Akbar.

Sadly that one is an Artifact, so you can really only expect to get that one if your GM thinks your healing really needs that huge boost.

Added Fearcatcher.

Any other's?  It's been a while since i've updated. 

Frankly, I think Victory is overrated.  In a game with a high skill challenge/combat ratio, or just a high variance between difficult encounters and easy encounters most characters will have action points in most combats where they need them.  So in that kind of game (and, for instance, LFR and Lair Assault are both exactly that kind of game, though the 2 round Lair Assault I guess isn't) it's hardly Gold -- and in fact other symbols (like Symbol of Daring) are far better.

I'm a big fan of the Symbol of Shared Healing on a melee leader.  In addition to using your second wind, it also triggers whenever you use a power that allows you to spend a healing surge.  Some scenarios:

1.  I can heal myself with an Inspiring Word and also allow an ally to spend a surge.
2.  Throw a mass heal such as Heroic Surge and be able to double heal an ally.
3.  Inspiring Word an ally, use your Cord of Divine Favor to take a surge yourself, then use the symbol to hand out yet another surge.

These ideas assume that you aren't a dwarf and you are only using one minor action to heal; it can get better.

Misha

Jan 10, 2012 -- 3:48PM, Misha wrote:

I'm a big fan of the Symbol of Shared Victory on a melee leader.  In addition to using your second wind, it also triggers whenever you use a power that allows you to spend a healing surge.  Some scenarios:

1.  I can heal myself with an Inspiring Word and also allow an ally to spend a surge.
2.  Throw a mass heal such as Heroic Surge and be able to double heal an ally.
3.  Inspiring Word an ally, use your Cord of Divine Favor to take a surge yourself, then use the symbol to hand out yet another surge.

These ideas assume that you aren't a dwarf and you are only using one minor action to heal; it can get better.

Misha

I assume you mean Symbol of Shared Healing?

Necklace of Prayer Beads is a fairly awesome symbol...though it is a rare item. The first option is a game changer for anyone, the other two can be useful to some characters...

Utility Power Encounter (Minor Action)

Effect: Choose one of the following benefits.

*: You and each ally within 5 squares of you can make a saving throw.

*: Until the end of this turn, your healing powers restore the maximum number of hit points possible.

*: Once before the end of your next turn, when you miss with a divine attack power, you can reroll the attack roll. You must use the second result.

Oops.  I meant the Symbol of Shared Healing; post edited.

Jan 10, 2012 -- 3:18PM, mneme wrote:

Frankly, I think Victory is overrated.  In a game with a high skill challenge/combat ratio, or just a high variance between difficult encounters and easy encounters most characters will have action points in most combats where they need them.  So in that kind of game (and, for instance, LFR and Lair Assault are both exactly that kind of game, though the 2 round Lair Assault I guess isn't) it's hardly Gold -- and in fact other symbols (like Symbol of Daring) are far better.

I rate for general purpose on generic campaigns.  What works in specific campaigns or buidls will always be different.  Anyways, the new candle of invocation is a winner in skill campaigns.

I actually downgraded symbol of daring since you need to keep it upgraded to maintain the effect.  Still nice though.  Doesn't compete with an free action point though. (well... i guess in extreamly large parties it might have more of an impact).

Jan 10, 2012 -- 10:49PM, Hephalumph wrote:

Necklace of Prayer Beads is a fairly awesome symbol...though it is a rare item.

Added, in addition to the other MME items.


Let me know if i miss anything.

They stealth errated symbol of hope in the dugeon master's kit.  It now requires you to hit with it.