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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 4:41PM
#1
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Do the Valenar have a similar tradition of challenging people who approach by ship as those who come into the city by land?
Looking for famous Valenar as well, other than Cassael Vadallia, Maezan Shal, or Shaeras Vadallia, those are pretty much the only ones I've ever heard of.
Flying is not inherently dangerous, crashing is.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 09, 2010 - 5:19PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2007
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I'd assume the Valenar take all challengers, be it by land, sea, or air (as to the latter, see Dragon Issue #362 for info on the Kael Gryphaen). I'd expect their ships to be of the "fast and maneuverable" variety. Beyond that, I can't say I'd spent much time thinking about it before you asked.
As to other famous Tairnadal, I use the Dusk Riders and the Dagger of the Valaes Tairn (both from Forge of War) in our campaign.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2010 - 5:19AM
#3
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The Valenar follow the path of one famous ancestor. I am not sure whether these all came from the rebellion against the giants (which is hinted to be the case) or that there are any new heroes admitted to the "pantheon" at a later date. I doubt there was much of a navy amongst the elves of Xen'drik, and Araenal is not known for their seafaring skills either. So personally I doubt the Valenar have much of a navy. In my campaigns they would simply pay house Lyrandor to be the coastguard and just use their own forces to vigilantly patrol the coastline.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 10, 2010 - 10:10AM
#4
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- Eberron Designer
- Moo, Baby, Moo
Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2002
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There's a few factors.
I agree with Madfox that the Valaes Tairn are not especially comfortable on the water and that they have no reason to have developed a strong navy. However, they are an extremely militant culture, and I do not believe that they would leave an approach to their capital unguarded. I don't think they would try to match you ship to ship on the open sea; it's just not their environment. However, to reach Taer Valaestas, you have to head up the channel inland. I would expect to encounter a checkpoint barricade as you head north of the line of Jal Paeridor. At this point it follows the same principles as traveling by land. Show yourself to be humble and harmless and you'll go through unchallenged. Show aggression and they will respond in kind. Again, the navy isn't their strength. Which is while they'll use blockades and, in my opinion, primal power. They have close ties with Lyrandar, and let's not forget the thorny walls of Taer Valaestas were raised* by Siyal druids... and that Siyal druids who ride with warbands are often called "Stormcallers". I would think that rough water, rocks rising to tear at the hull, sudden bad weather - all of these things could be brought to bear. Should you counter these with your own druids and break the blockades, you've clearly identified yourself as a serious threat; they may not come after you on the water, but they'll certainly prepare to meet you on land.
The main point to me is that war is what Valenar is about. It's a beachhead and a deathtrap. They're waiting for Karrnath or someone else to finally snap and attack them... which means that one of their primary activities is anticipating paths of attack and readying ambushes. They don't care much about merchants and travelers and I'd consider airship or sea the safest way to get there - if you're on a Lyrandar vessal you likely won't be challenged. Otherwise, the fact that the are weak at sea shouldn't stop the Valenar from at least checking to make sure you don't pose a threat. They might not be as keen to start a fight, and might overlook a minor challenge they'd follow up on if the encounter happened on land - but they'll still be watchful for threats, at least as you get close to Taer Valaestas.
At least, that's my take.
* OK, technically they were raised by Maezan Shal and only restored by the modern Siyal. Still, Tairnadal druidic magic at work.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 4:53AM
#5
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Talking about the Valenar ancestors, most are from the Rebellion age, are there any from a later stage? How do you become one? Could a PC potentially become one?
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 5:11AM
#6
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- Eberron Designer
- Moo, Baby, Moo
Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2002
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Talking about the Valenar ancestors, most are from the Rebellion age, are there any from a later stage? How do you become one? Could a PC potentially become one?
There are a few from later ages, such as Maezan Shal. How you do become one? By performing deeds that people will still speak of in twenty thousand years. By becoming a legend, so that thousands of later warriors will be inspired by your tales and seek to live up to them. In essence, by overshadowing the ancestor you originally sought to emulate - ceasing to simply live up to their tales and instead inspiring others with your own.
So in a 4E sense, certainly the kind of thing that would make a good epic destiny. But it's all about the legend. If no one knows who you are, it doesn't matter what you did. The Tairnadal honor their ancestors by emulating their deeds; if no one knows what your deeds were, then you're not joining the ranks. So go out and create some legends.
Tied to this, it's worth noting that there are Valenar ancestors that people DON'T want to get assigned. Legendary madmen. Legendary traitors. They are followed because despite their deeds being less than ideal, they are still legends and part of history. So again, it's about people knowing about what you did and feeling obligated to preserve it. Now, bear in mind, I'd expect the legendary traitor to have some redeeming qualities - he was the finest assassin ever seen, a master of poisons and stealth - and thus his descendants would be valued for these traits. But he also betrayed his brother at the battle of Coerlan Ford, and in a similar situation, one who follows his path would be expected to do the same. If that's you - and remember, the ancestor chooses the elf, not the other way around - do you betray your brother, as the legends indicate? Or turn against the past? Because that might be ANOTHER way to create your own legend - starting from the point of another, but than becoming the greatest assassin the Tairnadal ever saw and one who NEVER betrayed a friend... though in the short term that behavior will be seen as betrayal of your sacred duty to honor and emulate the ancestor.
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3 years ago ::
Feb 11, 2010 - 7:41AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2003
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Hey, betray the betrayer. Sounds like a good overshadowing of the ancestor to me. :P
...now I wanna play a Valenar Elf Assassin.
Planes Wanderer
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3 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2010 - 2:53PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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"Thrice-damned Azzar the Traitor! I had a mountain booked for my funeral pyre and everything. The least he could've done was poison my rations or something."
Nifty Icon courtesy of Tod.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 27, 2012 - 9:09AM
#9
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Well they got from Xen`drik to Aerenal. So some of them know how to build ships. Maybe some of them where pirates, raiding the giants trading vessels ect. With some modifications the ships from: "Ships of the Elves" from Mongoose Publishing could fit the Valenar. Some of them atleast. And most ships to Valenar dock inn Pylas Maradal? More recent the lot of them arrived via some kind of navy from Aerenal...From Shae Thoridor... Isran
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12 months ago ::
Jun 27, 2012 - 10:23AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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This has me wondering, how would the Undying Court react if one (or more) of the Five Nations attacked Aerenal, but focused completely on the northern steppes against the Tairnadal? Completely avoided attacking or even entering any non-Tairnadal territory, but sought to occupy the Tairnadal territory to cut Valenar off from supplies and replacement soldiers.
Would the Undying Court oppose this action, even though the Tairnadal are the ones who provoked it? I realize they are two seperate cultures, and the Court has no real control over the Tairnadal, but the Court has completely ignored the people the Valenar are killing in Khorvaire, so would they care if the Five Nations retaliated on Aerenal itself?
I was just thinking that it might be an interesting way to deal with the Valenar problem. The navies of the Five Nations outclass the navies of the Valenar, and the Lyrandar likely wouldn't intervene to aid the Valenar, so the Five Nations could blockade the Elves in Valenar and keep the majority of their best warriors stuck on Khorvaire while they attack the Tairnadal civilian populace and base of supplies/recruits/horses/what have you.
Of course there are still strong warriors protecting their homeland, the blockade can't completely stop the Valenar from making their way back, and they know the northern steppes of Aerenal far better than their beach head in Khorvaire, but its still a good strategy to employ. The majority of the best Tairnadal warriors are in Valenar, so attack their home where they're weaker. When they attempt to move their armies back to Aerenal, attack them at sea where you hold the advantage. The best they could do to counter attack on Khorvaire is lead an attack in Karrnath, because the Mournland blocks their way west, but then they're giving up their biggest advantage and fighting an enemy that excels in direct combat.
Its not a fool-proof plan, but you could very well put them in a position where they'll accept terms of surrender that require them to leave Khorvaire and return to Aerenal. Otherwise, the Wizards of the Five Nations will start burning down their cities and families. You'll still take big losses, because even without the warriors in Valenar, the Tairnadal are Grade A Badasses, but its going to work out better than just attacking Valenar itself where you'll have to fight an army of Rambos in the middle of the desert.
The only big issue I see, aside how terrible the fighting in Aerenal will be against the Tairnadal on their own soil (shudder), is the Undying Court opposing the Five Nations. The Court no doubt has little interest in Humans claiming portions of Aerenal for themselves, but if its clear that the Five Nations are just trying to get the Tairnadal to stop killing people in Khorvaire, will the Court really stand in the way? Because if they do then I swear I'll kill the crap out of all them too.
Anyway, what do the rest of you think the Court would do if the humans/goblinoids (both?) attacked the Tairnadal in Aerenal? Are they going to say "Nope, this ain't happening, we're not having any foreign powers occupying our contient." or will they say "You Tairnadal guys started this crap, you deal with it." Third option?
*I consider it implicit that the Court will of course oppose any action outside the Tairnadal territory, whether they care about the war between the Five Nations and the Tairnadal or not.*
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