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Mar 31, 2010 -- 9:09PM, Kaviyd3 wrote:

For 2 primary stats of the same defense -- many single class builds already have that problem.  Many hybrids can compensate a bit for weak defenses from having choices of where to assign their class defense bonuses.  Every character is going to have at least one defense lag behind the others in the long run.

Single classes that take the same defense are getting rewarded exceptionally so for doing so - the designers recognize that a character investing in say Wis/Cha is getting dinged. They're not doing that for hybrids. Someone who is taking from two different classes had better be getting some exceptional and unusual synergy or taking two classes that benefit from taking those two defenses. As an example, a Wis/Cha Paladin|Cleric.

Mar 31, 2010 -- 9:09PM, Kaviyd3 wrote:

Primary stats are the dump stat of the other class -- while it is nice to have stats that complement the class functions, the only absolute necessities are to make your attack stats reasonably high (and keep boosting them at every opportunity) and -- the AC bit covered in your third item.

The hybrid won't be getting any secondary/tertiary stat benefits compared to other hybrids who will get them. An example of this is again the Avenger|Sorcerer - by advancing Wisdom, Str/Dex suffers, creating the AC problem but also nerfing Sorcerer damage bonus. By advancing Charisma, Dex/Int suffers, again creating the AC bonus and losing a lot of riders on Avenger powers.

At the very least, you're writing off riders on powers, which should at least be limiting choice for no significant benefit. 

Apr 1, 2010 -- 10:32AM, Polaris wrote:

OK I can think of one other warning sign:

Be cautious if the two sides of your hybrid draw power from different power sources (such as Invoker|Wizard).  That often makes it difficult to boost all of your powers since abilities that boost your powers are often keyed to a specific power type (such as arcane).  Be exceptionally cautious, if you are drawing from two different powersources and almost all of your powers are implement powers.

Even so, doing this is not always a bad thing.  Paladin|Warlocks (esp Chaladin|Starlocks) are a good combo and arguably stronger than either a pure Chaladin or pure Starlock.  However, this is a bit of a special case leading me to.....

When considering a hybrid LOOK for the following:

1.  Classes that get all or almost all of their class power from their powers and not their class abilities (and may not even have meaningful class abilities).  The wizard is the posterchild here.  You lose little if any control potential if you hybrid a wizard providing the other side of the hybrid can support it (swordmage, artificer, taclord all can).

2.  Classes whose class features survived hybridization virtually untouched.  Example:  Swordmage.  Given that the swordmage hybrid aegis is almost as good (and in most cases as good) as the normal swordmage aegis, there is little reason not to play a hybrid swordmage if you want to play one assuming the other half of the class supports it (wizard and artificer are the two obvious choices)

3.  Classes that in pure form might otherwise underperform, but when taken together fill each other's holes.  The example I'm thinking of is the Chaladin|Starlock.  The Starlock gives the Chaladin reach and control ability that the Chaladin normally lacks along with the ability to ignore strength.  The Chaladin gives the Starlock the heaviest armor in the game (for a hybrid talent) which permits the Starlock to boost his Con and Cha both with impunity without taking a hit in his armor class.  Furthermore especially with the Crimson line of feats, the ability to mark at a distance, and then used ranged or strong melee attacks (often with divine sanction which is not affected by hybridization) allows for unmatched flexibility.  I mention this after playing one since it's one example of how two relatively weak single-classes hybrid into a very potent hybrid.

-Polaris

Those all make sense to me except I think the different power sources isn't that large of a deal. The roles are more of an issue. Striker/Striker and Controller/Controller generally sacrifice class features for a larger set of choices. Which usually don't add up. Different implements can be awesome, though - holy symbols in particular mean two free hands for arcane casters...

Apr 1, 2010 -- 10:51AM, Juchardt wrote:

Throwing in my 2 cents.  Hybrid Assassin is the greatest Striker/Striker hybrid you can possibly add, in my opinion.  It's the only striker that adds bonus damage no matter which attack you use; Rogues require a rogue power to use sneak attack, Rangers require a ranger power to use quarry damage, etc, etc., however Assassins Shrouds don't matter what power you're using to tack on that extra damage.  The only limitation is to 2 shrouds. 

That has been updated. The striker damage is limited to only assassin powers. I wasn't a big fan of Assassin hybrid - you generally lose roughly shroud damage by going hybrid in the first place, so what you're really doing is killing your defensive values for a little extra damage.

Apr 1, 2010 -- 10:32AM, Polaris wrote:

OK I can think of one other warning sign:

Be cautious if the two sides of your hybrid draw power from different power sources (such as Invoker|Wizard).  That often makes it difficult to boost all of your powers since abilities that boost your powers are often keyed to a specific power type (such as arcane).  Be exceptionally cautious, if you are drawing from two different powersources and almost all of your powers are implement powers.

I ran into a similar problem with an arcane/arcane multiclass (bard into artificer).  Many feats that are class specific are far less useful to hybrids and multiclassers -- to the point that most such feats are not taken.  Rather than count multiple power sources as a liability, I would count feat overlap for same power source as a plus for certain combinations.