A realistic rebuttal would be to point out that US soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq rarely remove body armor or helmets outside of their own bases. And pretty well never don't have their assigned weapon in the same room as them if not on their person.
Body Armor isn't scale or plate, but it can get uncomfortable after long periods of time.
From a historical perspective, traveling used to be a great deal more dangerous for unarmed people than it is today.
I've usually roleplayed a character not being armed to the teeth when socializing, but it seems rather setting specific. How gritty and realistic is the campaign world?
I can understand a soldier in Afghanistan still wearing armor wherever he goes. There's a very highly realistic threat that at any point during their day, they may be shot at, or it may be their only thin defence against an explosion.
It's all based on how messed up your cities and other social places are. What are the odds of your character being mugged at any point during the day? Slim? Like real life where we don't wear body armor and aren't armed to the teeth?
Or are you in the middle of the war and there's a pretty high chance that there's guerilla fighters over in that building there? Armor is logical based on the expected threat and the paranoia of the person wearing it.
Just remember, in our world, if you walk around with a sword and in armor, you generally get forced to visit the insane asylum. Or you're at an event where such a thing is acceptible. There's only a few places in the first world that allow you to carry a weapon and you usually require a license to do so.
To be fair, yeah, bearing arms could be a problem, but say you have some proof of nobility or a permit or writ allowing it, it's not unreasonable to at least carry light arms. Nobles, even at formal events, nay, ESPECIALLY at formal events, would have rapiers or the like on their person. It was a mark of privelage, to have the income to have a weapon, and the legal rights to hold it. Merchants in many areas could also be armed, but may be restricted to a smaller or less ornate weapon.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinquedea Peasants could be armed with daggers of this make for their own protection, for example, like this.
Scottish men who owned land were actually required to have weapons, in case of battle, and presumably for their own defense as well.
Of course, D&D is not limited to the real world whatsoever, but it's fun to take precedents from history, especially in trying to set up a believable town structure for a campaign setting. Perhaps the players could spend some money on a writ to carry their arms, just in case, or they could feign nobility and try to keep up this charade. Maybe one of the players IS nobility, and the others can serve as their entourage to get around. The roleplaying possibilities could be taken advantage of in many ways, if you allow it as a DM, or the players come up with it.
Just a quick follow up to my 5th level fighter example. As it turns out the party decided that lurching around in heavy armor probably would be counter-productive to the goal of investigating the cult gathering. So my fighter picked up a set of studded leather which fit under his rags and we went into the cult "temple" (which turned out to be an abandoned warehouse) where we were escorted into the presence of the cult leader.
The intention of the DM was to have us swarmed by a bunch of cult members (all just commoners mostly) when we were unwilling to perform a human sacrifice. But the rest of the party managed to distract the cultists while the rogue and my fighter did a quick switcheroo, with the rogue using his hat of disguise to impersonate the cult leader after he and my fighter flanked him to provide a sneak attack which killed the cult leader. While the rogue addressed the cultists, my fighter completed the ritual on the dead cult leader, while the intended victim put the dead cult leader's robe on. The sacrifice ended with the victim being thrown into a fire, so the cult leader's body was neatly disposed of.
So between a clever distraction, a hat of disguise and some bluff and diplomacy checks, we managed to complete the mission, retrieve the cult's magic tome, kill the cult leader and direct the cultists themselves to go back to their rooms while the party headed back out and to the inn.
The DM awarded us bonus XP for completing the mission without killing the mostly innocent cultists, killing the cult leader (which ended up disbanding the cult) and coming out with the tome that was the purpose of the whole visit. And other than the one-round dispatching of the cult leader, there was no combat whatsoever.
Just a quick follow up to my 5th level fighter example. As it turns out the party decided that lurching around in heavy armor probably would be counter-productive to the goal of investigating the cult gathering. So my fighter picked up a set of studded leather which fit under his rags and we went into the cult "temple" (which turned out to be an abandoned warehouse) where we were escorted into the presence of the cult leader.
The intention of the DM was to have us swarmed by a bunch of cult members (all just commoners mostly) when we were unwilling to perform a human sacrifice. But the rest of the party managed to distract the cultists while the rogue and my fighter did a quick switcheroo, with the rogue using his hat of disguise to impersonate the cult leader after he and my fighter flanked him to provide a sneak attack which killed the cult leader. While the rogue addressed the cultists, my fighter completed the ritual on the dead cult leader, while the intended victim put the dead cult leader's robe on. The sacrifice ended with the victim being thrown into a fire, so the cult leader's body was neatly disposed of.
So between a clever distraction, a hat of disguise and some bluff and diplomacy checks, we managed to complete the mission, retrieve the cult's magic tome, kill the cult leader and direct the cultists themselves to go back to their rooms while the party headed back out and to the inn.
The DM awarded us bonus XP for completing the mission without killing the mostly innocent cultists, killing the cult leader (which ended up disbanding the cult) and coming out with the tome that was the purpose of the whole visit. And other than the one-round dispatching of the cult leader, there was no combat whatsoever.
Sometimes subtlety is worth the effort.
Freaking bravo, man. I'm not just saying that, that's a great example of a plan come together. Bravo to the DM for not shutting it down like he could of and ruining the good time.
Freaking bravo, man. I'm not just saying that, that's a great example of a plan come together. Bravo to the DM for not shutting it down like he could of and ruining the good time.
Thanks, it was touch and go there for a bit. The rogue had to make some good diplomacy and bluff checks, but that's one of his specialties. Also the sneak attack was critical, a simple dagger would not have killed the cult leader, but the extra sneak attack damage was enough to one-shot the cult leader. So the flanking was critical. We had to pretend to be willing to do the sacrifice to get the opportunity to do the switcheroo. We were lucky that the ceremony was performed in a small alcove, so most of the switcheroo was hidden behind the rest of the party as they did their "oops, didn't mean to stumble into you there" routine. The biggest difficulty we had was actually the original intended victim who was not nearly as cooperative as we had hoped. It was good for us that she was gagged or she'd have given the whole thing away. The DM was playing her as too terrified to comprehend that she was being rescued. And I flubbed my own diplomacy check on her, so had to leave her gagged.
After the disposal of the leader's body, it was all pretty anticlimactic. We basically just walked out with the tome with the cultists bowing before us as they retired to their rooms.
Oh, and later on, while wearing my full plate armor, I was dual critted by some sort of efreet with a giant scimitar and very nearly killed.
I'm glad that worked out in your favor. It sounds like a really great time. For you We had a chance for a similar situation back when we were running KoTS with our current party plus one asshat playing a warlock. We were all set to bypass an encounter with a group of hobgoblin warriors after using a password gleaned earlier, when the alarmingly impatient warlock shouted "Kill them all!" and kicked off the encounter unprovoked. Our clever subterfuge(though not nearly as elaborate or risky as yours, BB) was completely ruined and to this day, 24 levels later, we still think about what could have been.
Sorry to hear about the crits, by the way. That's just dreadful luck. I can see why you don't trust your plate
MrF... yes it was very lucky, and very situational. We did not have any such plan in mind when we went in, we were expecting to join a bunch of cultists and listen to some sort of lecture or sermon or something. When we were immediately dragged in front of the cult leader and told our faith would be tested by performing the human sacrifice, we had to come up with something fast. If the sacrifice had been done in the open, instead of in a side alcove, or if the cult leader had a decent bodyguard, or if the intended victim had not been gagged, or probably half a dozen other things, our spur of the moment plan would have fallen apart and we'd have had to fight our way out.
Now, I don't think we'd have had any problem fighting our way out, even with my fighter in studded leather instead of plate armor. But we'd have killed a lot of innocent "cultists" who were really only in the cult because the cult had promised protection against the curse or plague that was killing dozens of people a day. So we didn't want to kill them.
And my fighter has plenty of faith in his full plate armor. But he also has faith in his combat expertise feat (this is 3.5, btw) and other techniques that allow him to boost his armor pretty dang high for a lowly fifth level fighter. At one point in the session today in a pit fight against a tyrannosaurus rex, he managed to boost his AC up to 28. Of course the tyrannosaur managed to crit him anyway, reducing him to 2 hit points, but luckily he got a timely heal and we managed to kill the tyrannosaur too.
So in one session he was the recipient of a critical hit three times, and was at one point down to -6 hp before he got healed.
This fighter, btw, is a sort of test I'm doing. He is entirely made up only of original core book feats, skills and magic items. He is as plain vanilla as you can possibly get. I'm trying to see if a character can be viable without using any of the bajillions of souped up feats, skills and items that most 3.5 players more or less live by. And he did OK today, without those crits he'd never have been really in trouble. And even so, he still managed to survive and with him taking all the damage, he allowed the other party members to unload on our enemies, so the party as a whole was never in any danger at all. In fact the only other party member who took significant damage at all was the barbarian dwarf who got swallowed by the tyrannosaur. Luckily we got him out before he was dissolved by the critter's stomach acid.
Anyway, he's a big believer in full plate. He just doesn't think he has to wear it to bed, and he doesn't wear it while hiking through the desert. He wears it when it makes sense in a real world sense. Our DM is pretty much a rules stickler, and wearing full plate all the time would end up with him suffering fatigue or the other effects that the DMG outlines for wearing plate all the time. He made it clear that hiking through the desert in full plate would be awfully unpleasant.
I'm Mr. F's DM, so I can speak a bit for the atmosphere in which he's playing. It's not quite kick-in-the-door, but it's definitely more action-driven than social. I started it as a straightforward game intended to try out 4e mechanics and, as people liked the formula enough to ask for more, I decided not to mess with it too much.
Mr. F's character, Balthazar Stonescale, is from the dragonborn equivalent of Rokugan's Crab Clan. He's spent every moment of his life under siege, keeping the demons of the Wastes from breaching the Wall of Terrevas and rampaging through the rest of Khorvaire. He's been taught that sleep is the only time not to be wearing full plate, and that's if you're safe in a fortified barracks with guards you trust on the doors. Even then, it can prove dodgy. Courtesy is cute when you can afford it, but it should never get in the way of being ready for the unexpected. Know that it's not Mr. F being paranoid about taking his armor off, it's his character that is (granted, he chose to play the character partly for his dedication to combat readiness, but it's an in-character behaviour).
I haven't done much to discourage this. Mostly the party's life for the past several months of game time (two years of real time) has been running from one highly perilous adventure in hostile territory to another. From the high seas to Khyber to Xen'drik to the Mournland to the Demon Wastes to a post-apocalyptic Karrnath to (SPOILER REDACTED). Civilization is something they mostly only see fleeting past the hull of their elemental spelljammer. They've had extensive recon and stealth tasks like the fun detective work your Fighter did, but they preferred to leave it to the party Rogue. Heck, the whole party realized around mid-paragon that they're Warforged and don't actually need to sleep at all! I don't think Balthazar's actually been out of his full plate since that discovery.
We've had circumstances in which we mingled in settings that normally would have frowned upon heavy armor and weaponry, but it helps that the party gained fame in Sharn early on as a gladiatorial team. Mostly they mingled in lower class areas where such readiness was accepted and necessary, like Malleon's Gate. They ventured into the upper towers on three occasions: once was to meet with their employer, Merrix d'Cannith, who had no problem with his own vassals being equipped for the tasks to which he'd appointed them. Another was the visit to Kundarak's bank of which Mr. F spoke; there we yielded and 'left our weapons on the airship'. The last was a bruncheon with the mother of a party member. We arrived directly via the skycoach balcony of her hotel suite (gotta love Sharn for bypassing receptionists) and were shortly thereafter attacked when we discovered that said mother was now an unholy vampire matriarch. Oh, and they got a stern look from Regent Moranna at the ceremony in which the party received the Order of Rekkenmark, but it's a military honor from a militaristic nation, so it was more a faux pas that Balthazar's armor was in 'field condition' than the fact that he was wearing armor at all. So... yeah. Social mores have been represented but, as often as not, martial readiness was either accepted or proved prudent.
This has all been a relatively unique blend of circumstantial happenstance and narrative expedience, and a more urban (or urbane) campaign, even one run by me for the same players, would likely have very different mileage. On the whole, we've all had fun, and that's what counts. Also, don't think that big B hasn't had his share of 'outside the box' non-combat solutions. He dramatically nerfed a BBEG fight by convincing the lord of the fire giants that his shrew of a queen had hired the party to assassinate him! Sure, Balthazar has pretty crummy Bluff, but the fire king had pretty crummy Insight! Besides, it wasn't an implausible notion. Many lols were had on that day, I can tell you.
(I employ zie/zie/zir as a gender-neutral counterpart to he/him/his. Just a heads-up.)
Essentials definitely isn't for me as a player, and I feel that its design and implementation bear serious flaws which fill me with concern for the future of D&D, but I've come to the conclusion that it isn't going to destroy the game that I want to play. Indeed, I think that I could probably run a game for players using Essentials characters without it being much of a problem at all. Time will tell, I suppose.
We had a chance for a similar situation back when we were running KoTS with our current party plus one asshat playing a warlock. We were all set to bypass an encounter with a group of hobgoblin warriors after using a password gleaned earlier, when the alarmingly impatient warlock shouted "Kill them all!" and kicked off the encounter unprovoked. Our clever subterfuge(though not nearly as elaborate or risky as yours, BB) was completely ruined and to this day, 24 levels later, we still think about what could have been.
