Kalashtar don't need an Int bonus, because they have natural telepathy, and boosts to both of the Psion's secondaries... Drow could use a Wis boost, but it's not necessary. And 4e Gnome fluff is more relevant to illusionists and bards than rogues. And even if you wanted a Gnome rogue, their feats and Charisma boost make up for it.
And these, along with the Tiefling, should be more than enough to prove my point. Just because the fluff of a race suggests that it favors a particular class doesn't mean that its ability scores need to match up with that class perfectly if there are other ways to make the race mechanically fit the class that would be just as if not more thematically appropriate. Thus, favoring a specific class does not anecessarily suggest that a specific ability score boost associated with that class automatically fits the fluff of the race.
Nice. Insult me because I forgot something earlier.
I didn't insult you, and I don't think you're lying, but the fact that this little piece was such an afterthought suggests that it isn't even a very important part of the race's flavor anyways, and certainly nothing that needs to be dealt with via an ability score boost. As Eisenritter suggested, a simple +1 Will would be more than enough.
Which is wrong, since their fluff in fact does support it.
You haven't shown that, though. You've shown why STR/CON would work and you've shown why STR/WIS would work, but I never denied either of those to begin with. What I've denied is that the choice, that the options, that the versatility, that the flexibility is out of place.
Then the solution is simpler than you realize. If it's not Charisma, and Muls are, in fact, +Str/+Con, then the answer is a racial Will bonus. Simple, easy, no complications to deal with, and the both of you can stop griping.
And that would have been a totally perfect solution. Unfortunately, it's apparently not what happened.
So honestly, whether it's justified or not doesn't matter at all. It's already happened, and there's no changing it.
Just because it already happened and it can't be changed doesn't mean that whether or not the decision was properly justified shouldn't still be questioned.
I just have this unfortunate urge to correct wrong information.
I have the same problem, especially when the wrong information in question is completely hypocritical.
HAHAHA! Well, I do have a wrestling singlet that I look sexy as hell in that I've been dying to have an excuse to use in a context that doesn't involve my boyfriend... That might have been too much information...
Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha
Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.
Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
HAHAHA! Well, I do have a wrestling singlet that I look sexy as hell in that I've been dying to have an excuse to use in a context that doesn't involve my boyfriend... That might have been too much information...
Or, it was just enough! I officially switch my lack of support for either party, to support for Crimson! Gaming homosexuals, UNITE! Hahahahaha
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca.
Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewok? That does not make sense!
But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this thread? Nothing.
Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this thread! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm D&D fan, trying to bring an argument to rest on an online forum, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Am I on the Star Wars RPG forum? NO! Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense!
And so you have to remember, when you're in that internet forum deliberatin' and conjugatin' whether Muls should have +2 Str/Wis, +2 Con or whether you should be talking about this on a different thread and trying to be more civil, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must quit!
The defense rests.
A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe
Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca.
Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewok? That does not make sense!
But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this thread? Nothing.
Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this thread! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm D&D fan, trying to bring an argument to rest on an online forum, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Am I on the Star Wars RPG forum? NO! Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense!
And so you have to remember, when you're in that internet forum deliberatin' and conjugatin' whether Muls should have +2 Str/Wis, +2 Con or whether you should be talking about this on a different thread and trying to be more civil, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must quit!
Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha
Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.
Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
I just have this unfortunate urge to correct wrong information.
I have the same problem, especially when the wrong information in question is completely hypocritical.
Yeah ... the problem is, I'm not hypocritical. I'm right. I'm factually right. And I have proven it, with evidence. It's not my fault that you can't accept that Muls have every justification for being able to choose. And no, it is not hypocritical to accept the Dwarves and Kalashtar with their slightly off stats, and the Mul's with their flexibility. Both are viable methods, and I never once said they weren't. What I think your issue here is that you're trying to make it an either or - there is no reason why it can't be both for justification. There are no rules saying that you have to have either perfect stat synergy, or decent synergy and feat support, no rules saying you can't have both, and you can't have the option to choose.
I'll give you one minor concession - the Tieflings and Kalashtar and Dwarves probably all should have had the option to choose as well. But when WotC designed them, they didn't realize they were making a mistkae. They have fixed that with newer races. They may go back and fix it with older races.
Point being, the Mul's absoluetly deserve their versatility. Most races proably deserve it. And with any luck, they eventually will get it. And there is not further justification needed. Or need I remind you, again since you decided to gloss over it earlier, your lovely little rants about Small size, Minotaurs, and Gnolls? As I believe you yourself have put it at lest once, just because WotC made mistakes in the past, doesn't mean they should keep making them - in this case regarding abilitiy score flexibility.
And with that, I am done. You're not going to accept reason, and there's no point in wasting my time on this further.
C_C, while you often make good points, you do seem to present yourself as the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) (tm) - this tends to rub people the wrong way.
The error is still in the completely unfounded assumption that Changelings got an option of which stat score to take based on a flavor of versatility rather than on "Well, changelings are clever, charismatic, and sneaky, so why don't we give them charismatic and let them choose the second one?" Why did other races not get the same treatment? There's any number of reasons. They might have simply never have thought of it. They might have thought of it, but were waiting to deploy it. They might have been hesitant to use the three-stats technology, but reasoned that changelings were a sufficiently compelling case. Not every instance of a race giving a choice at character creation is a representation of that race being versatile. Eladrin get to choose any trained skill because they're learned, not because they're versatile. (Even though half the time the trained skill is perception, stealth or thievery, which aren't things normally "taught" in the traditional sense.) Dragonborn choose a stat to base their dragon breath off of not because of OMG D-Born Versatility, but because it's a mechanical smoothing issue to allow a class feature to work for a greater range of classes. In the case of Genesi and Dragonborn breath damage type, the choice made a character creation reflects heterogeneity within the race, not the flexibility of any given member, as it does for Half-elves and Humans. Giving a race the choice between a few options that all make good sense for the race is not like giving some race Cold resistance at random. It's like giving Dwarves the option to choose between a bonus to saving throws to poison and to fear. (Assuming you believe dwarves are more fearless than average.)
As long as someone believes that the only thing that having a stat choice can represent is versatility of individuals within the race - and not, for example "these guys are, in general strong and mentally and physically resiliant" - then yeah, giving Muls a choice makes no sense.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'" - Gary Gygax
