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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 9:52AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2009
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Im glad you guys like the idea so much
too be honest im not 100% certain on the lore available to the horsemen so im glad you guys pointed out a few things like iconic colors and the symbolic items they carry, if anything this shows i should do some more research before starting up this idea but that's okay
more often than not, i dm for my group so it would be easy enough for me to hand out the mounted combat feat, likely for free just so no one feels like it is forced upon them
also i do really like the idea of having conquest and pestilince argueing over who isn't really a horsemen and it gives another great option for groups of five
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 10:04AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2008
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Well, the tactics and weapon mastery are important, but that isn't ALL war is. Sometimes war is just plain savage. Bloody, confusing, and hella scary. Imo, (and in the opinion of the War I statted up last night)
You're talking about the state of emotions and the visceral fight for survival itself on the battlefield, not the definition of war itself.
"1 a (1) : a state of usually open and declared armed hostile conflict between states or nations (2) : a period of such armed conflict (3) : state of war b : the art or science of warfare c (1) obsolete : weapons and equipment for war (2) archaic : soldiers armed and equipped for war
2 a : a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end"
"War is an act of violence intended to compel our opponent to fulfil our will." -Carl von Clausewitz.
Conquest: Ranger/Seeker/¿Bard? (as long as it uses a bow).
War: Fighter/Avenger/Barbarian. (using a greatsword/fullblade).
Famine: Caster afaik, doesn't matter much to me which as long as it uses an implement (shaped like scales).
Death: Hellock. (Since he's described to be followed by Hades).
The Seeker is another excellent option for Pestilence. In most of the lore/incarnations I've seen of "Pesty", it carried a bow for the weapon.
But I disagree with hellock for death. Hades is not meant as an evil force in that context. The Horsemen aren't evil, for that matter. They are forces of entropy. The assassin should still be the perfect choice for Death, imo.
There is no pestilence.
First Horsemen:
I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 10:33AM
#13
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Also, isn't Death on a pale (white) horse?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 11:23AM
#14
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2007
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Technically yes, it's pale, but not necessarily pale white. I'm pretty sure it's intended to be pale green, or sickly looking, like a corpse. Maybe even a skeletal horse.
Nekoazu, according to the bible, you're right, there is no Pestilence. In common pop culture for some odd reason, it has come to replace Conquest. And thanks to you and angelus_obscura for clearing up the war thing. Love the quote.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 12:53PM
#15
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Nekoazu, according to the bible, you're right, there is no Pestilence.
There's no War either, if you go by a strictly literal interpretation: the red horseman with the sword is never named as such. Neither is there a Famine: the rider on the black horse just seems very interested in the monetary exchange values of various commodities. The only horseman whose identity is explicitly given in the Book of Revelation is Death.
The horseman in white with the crown and bow is generally considered to be representative of plague/pestilence, which has commonly been portrayed as a 'king' or 'conqueror' due to its ability to kill large numbers of people (including actual kings). Compare, for example, 'King Cholera'. Arrows are also often a symbol of pestilence, because they can kill indiscriminately at a distance (see Apollo).
You're absolutely right about Death's 'pale' horse being corpse-coloured, though. The original Greek word used is 'khloros' (which usually means 'pale green').
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 5:28PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2008
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The 1st horseman: "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
Sounds like conquerer. Lit. from greek: and he went forth conquering and so that he might conquer (καὶ ἐξῆλθεν νικῶν καὶ ἵνα νικήσῃ).
The 2nd horseman:Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a huge sword.
Sounds like war to me.
The 3rd horseman: "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
Scarcity of corn, yet luxury products (oil/wine) are plentiful.
The 4th horseman is named.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 24, 2010 - 6:54PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2007
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I'm a bit confused. The way I heard it was these were the four riders:
War
Famine
Death
Jesus
That's right, the last horseman is actually Jesus in his second coming, and the reason he's there is to alleviate the suffering caused by the previous three or something. At least that's my Scripture professor's theory.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 12:37AM
#18
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"...rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest" =/= Conquest
I agree with Duskweaver, they're not all named specifically (except Death), but given a likeness to what they represent. Nekoazu, you're using an analogous description and turning it into fact.
Anyways, in our Ravenloft->Sigil->Spelljamming game, my skycaptain (1/2 elf valbard from Eberron) recently come across 4 refugees whose personalities and parts of their brain have been wiped by the mindflayers we rescued them from. After extracting the tadpoles from their skulls and healing them, we discovered that they are now mindless drones susceptible to any command. My bard used Diplomacy coupled with the "psychic" aid of Words of Friendship to instill in them the command to obey only me (they were basically a security risk to my airship if left unattended). I rolled a natural 20, to the DM's amazement (adding my +17 to the roll). Long story short, I am now in command of the following "cohorts" ...
Private Gene Ericson, human farmboy
Private Richard Hombie, razorclaw shifter hunter
Corporal Phillip Bastion, human graduate of Morgrave Univ.
Sergeant Derrel Canley, 1/2 elf, 'marked scion of House Lyrandar
They are tabula rasa, and I want to reforge them into ... yes, that's right... the 4 "Horsemen"; basically a squad of specialist killers. In game terms, I intend to weave bardic lore and magic into their essence, reshaping them into the storied archetypes, and use truenaming to bind them.
Any suggestions as to who should be what? I know the above aren't the IDEAL type to use for the Horsemen (I mean I would've liked one of them to be a girl so she can be Death), but it's what I have to work with. I appreciate any input/feedback. Have at it!
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 9:58AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jun 28, 2008
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"...rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest" =/= Conquest
I agree with Duskweaver, they're not all named specifically (except Death), but given a likeness to what they represent. Nekoazu, you're using an analogous description and turning it into fact.
No, but that's what the, afaik, original greek version says.
"Behold! White horse and who sits on him had bow and was given to him crown, and he went forth conquering and so that he might conquer." (word-by-word translation)
That's right, the last horseman is actually Jesus in his second coming, and the reason he's there is to alleviate the suffering caused by the previous three or something. At least that's my Scripture professor's theory.
Actually, that debate is about the first horseman.
So that would mean that jesus is followed by war, famine and death - yeah sounds about right... or does it?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 25, 2010 - 10:11AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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Eer, the swarm druid seems to make the most sense for the horseman of pestilence, while famine makes more sense as the dark warlock, with alot of ongoing damage attacks, and how the dark warlock "feeds" as it kills. For war a warlord makes sense to me, but for Death I'd actually go for a Paladin of the Raven Queen. You could reverse that though, and do a fighter for war and a cleric of the Raven Queen for death.
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