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Feb 10, 2010 -- 8:24AM, Einlanzer wrote:

Feb 5, 2010 -- 4:03AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

Feb 3, 2010 -- 12:05PM, Alyri wrote:

Feb 2, 2010 -- 11:22AM, Artoomis wrote:

But the rules don't allow it.  That's the key difference.

Frankly, I do not see what all the argument is about anyway.  For Versatile weapons, for example, all two-handed weapon feats, powers., etc. all work when using one with two hands, so who cares if it is actually a two-handed weapon when thus wielded or not?  It's treated just as if it is one, and is not that, for all practical purposes,. the same thing?

Really, what practical difference does it make?

Well there are a number of reasons why this particular discussion is an ongoing debate.
People don't want someone to have an advantage.  'it's not fair that someone can use either benefit from powerattack by using a versatile weapon in either one hand or two hands.'
People want to show they 'know the true rule'
People hate the small race concept and in order to really stick the 'I hate small races concept" they can never, ever, ever, have a two handed weapon, thus showing WotC just how stupid the small race idea is.
People don't want choice.  Two handed is from this __ list and this list only, now just how smart are you in picking the 'correct' weapon from this ___ list.
etc.

People always try to make Rules do more things than what's written. It's not about barring things or being reestrictive, it's about the RAW Versatile and what they can and can't do. Small creatures can't use them neighter. Yes they can use Versatile weapons, but they must do so with two hands and don't benefit from the bonus. That's sad. Their short physical dosen't let them weild Great sword, and let them only weild Long sword with two hands. They can only weild smaller weapons in one hand. The Designers made them this way, as far as 2nd Edition.

Nothing new. Except that they made a usage method (two-handed) into a Weapon Classification and put prerequisits demanding them.

Once again, none of this can be proven given the limited discussion time spent on it in the PHB.  It can be deduced either way, and neither side has any claim with factual support.  I always have and always will support versatile in 2 hands = 2 handed weapon (mostly for the sake of small characters, and because it's intuitively obvious to me).

For those that disagree, that's fine, do it your way, but stop committing a negative proof fallacy by attempting to prove its factuality when nowhere in the PHB does it state "Versatile weapons are still considered one-handed when wielded with both hands".  Your argument, like ours, is based upon subjective interpretation, and the issue will not find consensus until Wizards officially addresses it with rules errata for the versatile property itself.

Well, the PHB doesn't contradict this belief,  there is positive CS responses, Errata to Powers now allowing Small creatures to make use of them, what do you want more, an E-mail from Chris Perkins ?  LOL

Seriously, it would be nice that WoTC clear this up once and for all, in one way or another but to give us a final answer. An FAQ or something in an Update.  Wizards must love to see heated Threads poping-up in repetition once in a while to populate their Board. LOL

The Barbarian Power's Requirements  Errata going from Two-handed Weapon to Weapon weilded with two hands, is to me, clear that it's there to allow Versatile weapon to be used with them and no other reasons.

Other than Two-handed weapons, Versatile weapons are the only weapons that can be weilded with two hands.

February's Update is coming soon.....LOL  Who knows !

Feb 10, 2010 -- 9:29AM, Einlanzer wrote:

Feb 10, 2010 -- 9:21AM, Plaguescarred wrote:

The Barbarian Power's Requirements  Errata going from Two-handed Weapon to Weapon weilded with two hands, is to me, clear that it's there to allow Versatile weapon to be used with them and no other reasons.

Precisely, it was likely meant as a clarification of the original intention, for those who couldn't read between the lines.  GFAW GFAW!!

Exactly.

On the Requirement line, replace “a two-handed weapon” with “a melee weapon in two hands.” This change allows Small characters to use this power by wielding versatile weapons

Because Versatile weapon never has been able to count as Two-handed weapon. This allow Small ones to use those powers now. Because no sane Barbarian of Medium Size would ever use a Versatile One-handed weapon when he can use a big and deadlier Two-handed weapon.

The small ones can be more viable Barbarian now. And i think it's to fix their mistake. In the PHB 2 Gameday, i think they had made a Small barbarian and realised after this wasn't possible with the Powers Requirement's wordings. So an Errata was needed.