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Jul 15, 2010 -- 6:59AM, mellored wrote:

4d4(4[W] & 1d4) 75%
3|1
2|1
1|1
0|1
(6*4)+(4*3)=36  ; ~9 per die, for a 1d4, thats a great value.

[snip]

8d4(4[W] & 2d4)  75%
6|2
4|2
3|1
2|1
1|1
0|1
(16*4)+(8*3)=88 ;  ~11 per die, well this is much better than the 1d4 and every other die  size.

Something wrong here.  The average damage per d4 should be the same.

No, the reason the average damage isn't the same 'per d4' is because he is only showing the original number of dice; and the average damage achieved with the near infinite rerolls of d4b2/vorpal...

If you start with 4 d4, you'll statistically vorpal on 3 of them and get 3 on the 4th.... an average of 3.75 per die.

But then you figure that each of those that hit 4 get to reroll, and you now have 3d4; where you will statistically get one 3 and two 4's; now we have 5 4's and 2 3's, an average of 3.714 per die rolled - lower actually... but if you only count the initial 4 dice, it comes to an average of 6.5 per die... a higher average.

And so on, the 2 4's in the second roll trigger vorpal and you get 1 3 and 1 4; so now we have a grand total of 6 4's and 3 3's, across 9 dice. That comes to an average of 3.667 per each of the 9 dice; but counting only the original 4 d4's in the attack, it is an average of 8.25 per die.

The last vorpal reroll will result in a 3 25% of the time, and a 4 75% of the time, but for this tyoe of calculation it becomes a 3... so we now have 10 dice rolled, triggered from 4 dice initially; with 6 4's and 4 3's, a grand total of 36 points of damage, you are either looking at 3.60 per die (counting all 10), or 9 per die (counting only the original 4 triggering dice rolls)....


does that make sense?


If so, you can see that by starting with a higher number of dice, you get more iterations of vorpal rerolls, and so the average damage per die continues to increase or decrease...depending on if you are only considering the triggering set of dice, or each die actually rolled/rerolled.

The reason the larger number of dice has a bigger average is because the method takes into account only whole dice and as DM_Ken pointed out, the average is based on the triggering set of dice, not the total number of dice rolled, else the average would be ~3.75 per die.

You dont have half a die IRL and you dont deal 3.5 damage. At smaller numbers you have greater inefficiency. You also have to draw the line somewhere when you calculate. I draw it at less than 1 die triggers vorpal, others may cut it off when the chance to roll a vorpal consecutively drops below 5% or when the damage added by a successful vorpal is less than the max damage for a given die.

I just realized: Is there even a weapon that deals 2d4 AND has Brutal 2?

You know what, here. Its not finished but its what Im working with atm.

Spoiler: Show

Now I havent finished the total DPR calc so Ill just give a rough estimate, despite it being a HUGE math error. In fact, to paraphrase Legion "... it is not a math error, we simply reached a different conclusion."

Now for the quick and dirty for a 'Nova' round. I am currently trying to add sustainability to the build.

As preparation, use Rage of the Ancient Forbears', cast Giant's Might and use a frost whetstone on each weapon.

My attack is Attack: 8(Str) +15(Level/2) +3(Prof) +6(Enhance) +3(Ver. Exp) +1(Prime Hunter) +2(Giant's Might) +1(2-H Weapon Talent) +1(Kensei) +2(Giant's Might)=40 vs 44 AC

Open with Whirling Skirmish which is Strength vs AC. It deals 2[W] +Str, shifts you and then deals another 2[W] with the off-hand weapon plus an additional [W] from Rending Tempest. This also gives the enemy cold vulnerablity. Next pop your AP an gain +4 to hit from Action Surge(+3) and Baldric of Valor(+1) You also get CA  to add another +2 on there. You now have a whopping +46 to hit.

Now use Hurricane of Blades and attack 4 times using your off hand. Each attack deals 2[W]+Str +[W] from cascade. So far we've done 17[W] of damage, so thats... 34d4 in damage?

Damage Calc
Spoiler: Show

Jul 16, 2010 -- 9:21AM, Dark_Lambo wrote:

I have a question... how is multitarget DPR calculated?

For example, the Gensai Blaster Wizard build has a 25 square enemy-only at-will dealing 1d6-2+Str+Static (+Condition) at level 11. How does something like that compare?

For this thread I have asked that you calculate single target DPR and then show the area you're hitting.  46 DPR(3x3)  Area and single target are 2 very different numbers and I feel a conversion is unacceptable and highly biased.