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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 10:04AM
#721
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2008
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Scorching Burst, Admixtured Thunder
A-B1 standard
+1 Resounding Thunder
+1 Enlarge
+1 Master of Flame PP
=A-B4 =9x9
That's the max that I know of. Is there another boost to get it to 11x11?
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 10:21AM
#722
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2007
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Yeah, but not at-will.
Staff of the War Mage will make it 11x11 (A-B5) at the cost of a daily item use.
Tee-hee Tee-hee
Tee-hee Tee-hee
I am your quiet voice of reason.
Tee-hee Tee-hee
Tee-hee Tee-hee
Tee-hee
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 10:22AM
#723
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2005
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For this thread I have asked that you calculate single target DPR and then show the area you're hitting. 46 DPR(3x3) Area and single target are 2 very different numbers and I feel a conversion is unacceptable and highly biased.
Ah, I see the notation now. I didn't catch it when I was looking before.
I agree that party-friendly or not does make a difference, so long as there's a notation. I feel DPR60 (9x9) is worse than DPR40 (5x5) if the 9x9 is party-unfriendly, as you won't be able to use it as much.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 10:42AM
#724
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2008
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@Borg I just noticed you updated your Baseline DPR section. Nice analysis. I didn't really follow what you meant by "150 DPR at 30th" though. Was that for an optimized striker and not a baseline striker? The analysis also helps to explain why combats in Heroic seem to usually take longer than those in Paragon. Your average striker doesn't really hit 2*lvl+6 in Heroic, but by Paragon that seems easier. It also helps to explain why AoE DPR has always seemed so under-valued to me. When AoE strikers (wizards and sorcerers for example) are doing 100+ DPR per round around 13th level, which falls into your "nerfbat" category (since it means combats only last 1 round), it's easy to see why single-target DPR becomes less relevant. Whether monsters get 1 round or 2 rounds to attack you doesn't really matter as much when combats are so short  Also, very minor nitpick: You mention "The controler takes care of the hoards". I believe that should be "The controller takes care of the horde" (or plural "hordes", your choice). :P
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 10:42AM
#725
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2007
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@borg285 btw, shift slasher and arcane slasher were hit by the july update, they work anymore currently...
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 11:05AM
#726
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I also think we should establish some rule of thumb, like 2 enemies in a 3x3, 3 in a 5x5, 4 in a 7x7 etc ? Btw, what's the current maximum for at-will blasting, 9x9 scorching burst or did someone find a 11x11 at-will by now ?
If we are talking level 30, a Swordmage/Master of Flame/Arcane Sword can get a burst 3 at-will (Thundering Vortex), then it can be increased by 2 for a 11x11.
There are also level 30 builds that can reuse daily/encounter powers every turn, so basically equivalent to at-will. Legion's Hold or Hail of Arrows can be used to cover a very large area.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 1:13PM
#727
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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@borg285 btw, shift slasher and arcane slasher were hit by the july update, they work anymore currently...
Thank you. I'm still swamped at work and will get to this next week. Sorry for the delay.
@Corwynn: 150 DPR at 30th was when I saw the stormwarden as an acclaimed uber striker yet was drowned in the horde of other DPR king candidates. I viewed 150 as easy at level 30, due to how much cheese you could pull (2 rings of free time + level 30 feature) and broke the mold of 4*level + 12 a bit.
Concerning the 2*lvl + 6 baseline for heroic and its achievableness, I think you'll find that if you spend enough time doing optimization in heroic you'll find that it's not that hard. Look at the stereotypical section and go from there. They already start off above the 8 DPR point and they may need to dip into other areas(charging, longtooth...) to maintain it, but with more material I feel safe in saying that it won't be that hard.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 2:09PM
#728
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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I'd like to add a not-that-tweaked fighter as sort of a baseline "should beat this" Beatstick. Level 30 Longtooth Shifter Fighter/Son of Mercy/Demigod. Sorry for the lack of a summary. build
Show
16/14/14 array. 16 in Str, 14 in Con and Wis. Boost Str & Con ever level.
Feats: Versatile Expertise, Weapon Focus, Ogremight Student, Power Attack, Lasting Frost, Marked Scourge, Wintertouched, Robust Defenses, Reckless Attacker, Defender of the Wild, Crippling Crust, Bludgeon Mastery, Weapon Proficiency (Mordencrad), 5 feats to be determined.
Equipment: The usual permafrost suspects, +6 Frost Mordencrad, 5 +1 Master's Blade Daggers. War Ring, Ring of Giants
Cheese: Permafrost. Using Daily Item uses: a large collection of +1 Master's Blade Daggers. DPR: 95.37 (1?) Calculation
Show
Assuming Battlefury Stance, and Martial Supremacy (both encounter stances. Using the daily power from a Master's Blade to use both). Attack with Brash Strike
To Hit: +15(level)+9(str)+6(magic)+3(expertise)+2(proficiency)+2(Brash Strike)+2(Combat Advantage)+1(fighter)+1(ogremight student)-2(Power Attacking)
To Hit: +39 vs. AC of 44. Reroll misses from Martial Supremacy
Hit Chance: 96%. Crit Chance: 12% (10% chance of critting on the first roll, 20% chance of missing, and a 10% chance of critting on the second roll)
Damage: 4d6b1(weapon)+9(str)+9(power attack+7(Con: Brash Strike)+7(Con: Crippling Crush)+6(Battle Fury Stance)+6(IAoP)+5(cold dragon shard)+5(Lasting Frost)+4(Wis: Son of Mercy)+3(Weapon Focus)+2(Ice Gloves)
Damage: 79 averge.
Crit Damage: +6d6+2d6b2(War Ring)+12(Ring of Giants) + Basic Attack
Crit Damage: 128 + Basic Attack.
Basic Attack DPR (for inclusion later via Reckless Attacker)
BA: 0.96 * 79 + 0.12 * (128-79) = 81.72
DPR:
BS: 0.96 * (79 + 4) + 0.12 * (128-79+81.72) = 95.3664
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 2:26PM
#729
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2008
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@Corwynn: 150 DPR at 30th was when I saw the stormwarden as an acclaimed uber striker yet was drowned in the horde of other DPR king candidates. I viewed 150 as easy at level 30, due to how much cheese you could pull (2 rings of free time + level 30 feature) and broke the mold of 4*level + 12 a bit.
Okay, so it seems like it's not intended as a "baseline"? It's possible to break, but nothing a regular striker would be normally doing (since the Stormwarden build is on the upper end of the optimization range). Instead, it's what an optimized striker should be striving for?
Concerning the 2*lvl + 6 baseline for heroic and its achievableness, I think you'll find that if you spend enough time doing optimization in heroic you'll find that it's not that hard.
Agreed. But then this wouldn't be "baseline", correct? Especially if they have to dip into stuff like needing to be a specific race (Githzerai, Longtooth Shifter, etc...).
I ask because I play LFR and I meet a lot of different players (and see a lot of PCs). The strikers in heroic don't seem to put out that kind of damage, on average. Some PCs are higher of course, and some poorly built ones are worse.
I've personally always thought that 20/40/60 was on the money. Though even then I know some people thought it should actually be closer to 15/40/60.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 16, 2010 - 2:37PM
#730
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2008
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I'd like to add a not-that-tweaked fighter as sort of a baseline "should beat this"
Beatstick. Level 30 Longtooth Shifter Fighter/Son of Mercy/Demigod. Sorry for the lack of a summary.
I personally would not consider abusing +1 Master's Blade Daggers as "beatstick" (aka, your average fighter). Ditto for using anything that reduces your defenses.
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