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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 11:16AM
#81
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I’ve been wanting to post this for a while: Wizard Nova DRP lvl 20 = 195.80 DRP to 65% of enemies in Close Burst 2. This is 102.5% of each mobs HP. ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Sardis Nova, level 20 Genasi, Wizard|Cleric, Spellstorm Mage
Hybrid Talent: Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric)
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Lightning
Arcane Admixture II: Arcane Admixture Lightning II
Elemental Manifestation: Stormsoul
Arcane Admixture Power: Freezing Cloud
Arcane Admixture II: Prismatic Beams FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 20, Con 13, Dex 14, Int 24, Wis 13, Cha 9. STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 12, Dex 13, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 8. AC: 27 Fort: 26 Reflex: 27 Will: 23 HP: 100 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 25
TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +22, Dungeoneering +16, Arcana +22 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +12, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Endurance +13, Heal +11, History +17, Insight +11, Intimidate +9, Nature +13, Perception +11, Stealth +12, Streetwise +9, Thievery +12, Athletics +15 FEATS Level 1: Elemental Empowerment
Level 2: Destructive Wizardry
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Staff)
Level 6: Elemental Echo
Level 8: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 10: Distant Advantage (retrained to Enlarge Spell at Level 11)
Level 11: Focused Expertise (Quarterstaff)
Level 12: Resounding Thunder
Level 14: Hybrid Talent
Level 16: Solar Enemy
Level 18: Arcane Admixture
Level 20: Arcane Admixture II POWERS Channel Divinity (Hybrid Cleric): Healer's Mercy
Hybrid daily 1: Freezing Cloud
Hybrid daily 15: Prismatic Beams (replaces Ice Storm) ITEMS
Staff of Ruin +4,, Queen's Staff +4, Bracelet of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Ring of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Spark Slippers (paragon tier), Crown of the Brilliant Sun (paragon tier), Symbol of Divine Light +4 ******* Round 1: Minor: Solar Enemy (+Symbol of Divine Light, all enemies within close burst 2 gain Radiant Vulnerability 10) Minor: Promise of Storms Free: Spend Action Point Standard 1: Cast Prismatic Beams = 106.1 DPR (Enemy Only, Close Burst 2, hitting at least 2 targets) = 2x 53.05 DPR [After 65% hit rate @ 2d6 +2d8 +65 = 2d6 +2d8 +31 base +3 Destructive Wizardry, +4 Elemental Echo, +10 Extra Damage Action, +10 Radiant Vulnerability, +On going 5] Standard 2: Cast Ice Storm = 89.7 DPR (5x5 area on top of self = Close Burst 2)
=(One Hit) 48.1 DPR [After 65% hit rate @ 1d8 +2d8 +58 = 2d6 +2d8 +31 base +3 Destructive Wizardry, +4 Elemental Echo, +10 Extra Damage Action, +10 Radiant Vulnerability]
=(Start of Enemy Turn) 41.6 DPR [After 65% of enemies in Close Burst 2 to a min of 78 damage to 65% of enemies in a 5x5 area. 195.80 DPR to 65% of enemies in Close Burst 2. This is 102.5% of each mobs HP.
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EDIT: If I go Morninglord PP, my damage goes up quite a bit as well as covering a much larger area.
EDIT 2: Testing Morninglord gives me an extra +18 DPR for a total of 213.40
Proud member of The Knights of WTF:
"All hail the Knights of WTF!!! Armed with only the Armor of Reason and the Sword of Mechanical Understanding we march!!"
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 11:20AM
#82
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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I like the idea of submitting different classes, even if the DPR doesn't measure up to par with rangers or charger builds. It gives a baseline for what to expect from a class. Here is a first go, at a level 6 sorcerer.
18.95 DPR Halfling Basic Sorcerer (6), by Mengu74 ()
DPR Relevant bits:
Halfling (Storm or Chaos) Sorcerer 6
Dex 18, Cha 20
Feats:
Implement Expertise Light Blade
Weapon Focus Light Blade
Two -Weapon Fighting
Dual Implement Spellcaster
Powers:
Acid Orb
Items:
Goblin Totem Dagger +2
Magic Dagger +2
Bracers of the Perfect Shot
Eagle Eye Goggles
Assumption: You are attacking a medium or larger creature.
Acid Orb
+12 vs Reflex (+5 charisma +3 level +1 expertise +2 enhancement +1 item)
1d10+19 damage (+5 charisma +4 dexterity +2 enhancement +2 dual implement +1 feat +1 two-weapon fighting +2 item)
DPR = 0.7*24.5+0.05*36 = 18.95
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 1:21PM
#83
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2005
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if we find a good way to sort hybrids and MCs, then I join the "sort by class" camp.
without it, I think "sort by role" is a much safer bet. if you need some help, I'm also offering that, though I don't really know what I could do...
I think role is a bad sorting principle and here's why:
A lot of these characters are not operating in their classes's wotc assigned role and make significant sacrifices that prevent them from performing their WotC assigned role as well as most characters in that role would do. If you are consider the palavenger for instance, I think he is better considered as a (nova oriented) striker than as a defender despite starting with the paladin class. The same might be true for some DPR wizard builds--they are properly seen as competitors to the sorcerer rather than the orbizard.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 1:25PM
#84
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Date Joined:
Jul 10, 2003
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I think role is a bad sorting principle and here's why:
A lot of these characters are not operating in their classes's wotc assigned role and make significant sacrifices that prevent them from performing their WotC assigned role as well as most characters in that role would do. If you are consider the palavenger for instance, I think he is better considered as a (nova oriented) striker than as a defender despite starting with the paladin class. The same might be true for some DPR wizard builds--they are properly seen as competitors to the sorcerer rather than the orbizard.
hmm, how about for defender builds they get one triggered mark (for combat challenge and the like)
and for leader builds... tricker we need a way to measure the damage they add with buffs and granted attacks.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 1:45PM
#85
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hmm, how about for defender builds they get one triggered mark (for combat challenge and the like)
and for leader builds... tricker we need a way to measure the damage they add with buffs and granted attacks.
Marks don't trigger nearly as often as rogues get CA, at least lot with average builds. Unless a true catch-22 is set up, assuming that your target will violate the mark is a bit much.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 1:45PM
#86
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2005
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I think role is a bad sorting principle and here's why:
A lot of these characters are not operating in their classes's wotc assigned role and make significant sacrifices that prevent them from performing their WotC assigned role as well as most characters in that role would do. If you are consider the palavenger for instance, I think he is better considered as a (nova oriented) striker than as a defender despite starting with the paladin class. The same might be true for some DPR wizard builds--they are properly seen as competitors to the sorcerer rather than the orbizard.
hmm, how about for defender builds they get one triggered mark (for combat challenge and the like)
and for leader builds... tricker we need a way to measure the damage they add with buffs and granted attacks.
I don't think that would work because the mark punishment mechanic generally sees less play the more effective it is. Thus, if you assumed one triggered mark, the balanced paladin with mighty challenge would look like the highest DPR defender, but when his player actually sat down to play in a game, he would notice that the Str/Wis Straladin dealt far more damage than he did--possibly even including triggered marks (because you can afford to trigger a weak mark more often than a strong one).
Leaders is actually easier. You can measure the damage they add to the party with their at-will powers fairly easily; the challenge is figuring out the right set of assumptions about the party. A barbarian (perhaps the one from the DPR champions) entry making a single at-will attack under the influence of a buff (righteous brand, furious smash, inevitable wave, etc) or receiving a single extra attack (commander's strike, etc) is probably the easiest way to do it without giving undue advantage to any particular leader, but different leaders would benefit from different characters (for instance, an avenger is ideal for commander's strike or inevitable wave, an artful dodger is probably ideal for furious smash, a two weapon ranger is ideal for righteous brand, and four archer rangers are ideal for magic weapon).
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 2:38PM
#87
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Date Joined:
Nov 25, 2006
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a build that is optimized for charge DPR and little less; it assumes you've been bloodied and are using Shifting. I think we could afford 1 Blood Fury weapon to become bloodied 1st thing every encounter Longtooth Shifter Avenger 6
Str 20 Feats:Gorebrute Charge, Powerful Charge, Avenging Resolution, Invigorating Pursuit Items:Avalanche Maul +2, Horned Helm MBA Attack: +13 vs AC Hit: 2d6x2 + 1d6 + 15.755 (with 1s & 2s considered 3s) breakdown
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3 (lvl) + 5 (Str) + 2 (Ench) + 2 (prof) + 1 (charge)
5 (Str) + 2 (Ench) + 2 (Shifting) + 3 (Gorebrute) + 2 (Powerful) + 1.755 (Pursuit)
the odds of me hitting previous round are 0.8775, so Invigorating Pursuit should, on average, contribute 1.755 damage DPR ~ 34.64305 (Ch)
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((1-(1-0.7)^2)-(1-(1-0.05)^2))*35.755 + (1-(1-0.05)^2)*57.355 = 34.64305
Melee Dragonborn Warlock; DPR 34.15
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my level 1 warlock leveled; we still need to be bloodied
Dragonborn Warlock|Fighter 6
Str 18, Cha 20
Feats:
Curse of Io's Blood, Mindbite Scorn, Hybrid Talent: Weapon Talent, WE
Items:
Avalanche Maul +2, Horned Helm
Battle Fury Stance
Maul Eldritch Strike:
Attack: +16 vs AC
Hit: 2d6x2 + 2d6 + 1d6 + 16 breakdown
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3 (lvl) + 5 (Cha) + 2 (Ench) + 2 (prof) + 1 (Dragonborn Fury) + 1 (class) + 1 (charge) + 1 (WE)
5 (Cha) + 2 (Ench) + 5 (Io's Blood) + 2 (stance)
DPR = 0.8*38.5+0.05*67 = 34.15 (Ch) longtooth shifters, while shifting, make awesome chargers with Gorebrute Charge; brightbane's druid can also be improved if we go that way Spoiler:
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more or less same assumptions as before
Longtooth Shifter Druid 6
Wis 20
Feats:
Gorebrute Charge, Ferocious Tiger Form, Enraged Boar Form, Powerful Charge
Items:
Staff of the Serpent +2, Claw Gloves, Iron Armbands of Power, Horned Helm
Pounce
Attack: +14 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 1d10 + 20 breakdown
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3 (lvl) + 5 (Wis) + 2 (Ench) + 1 (Form) + 1 (charge) + 2 (CA)
5 (Wis) + 2 (Ench) + 2 (Shifting) + 3 (Gorebrute) + 2 (Enraged) + 2 (Ferocious) + 2 (Powerful) + 2 (Armbands)
DPR = 0.8*37+0.05*59 = 32.55 (CA, Ch) DPR = 32.55 (CA, Ch) and the discussion: I think we're overthinking this. it's a DPR competition (compilation). more or less any entry will venture outside it's role into strikers (unless it's posted here only for comparison). what are leaders and defenders doing in DPR Kings thread, anyway? I would also request separation by level back.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 5:35PM
#88
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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I too think that giving controller candidates a DPR boost or the like for doing their job, leaders for buffing, defenders for defending is counterproductive to the purpose of the thread. This is a DPR thread. While I do like to avoid pure focus on DPR at the sacrifice to all else(Defenses, durability, versatility...) let's not stray from the topic. If controllers... want to compete with us he had better be prepared to measure apples to apples, namely Damage.
That being said I feel to propose that we revert again to a level categorization instead of a role or class categorization. If you feel it's unfair comparing your sorcerer bombarding blazing starfalls and feeling underpar compared with the charging barbarian then tough luck. I originally prepared for area strikers (sorcerers and blaster wizards) by making you state your DPR(5x5) with the area. No fair conversion can be done, only exceptions can be made. This is a DPR competition in search for a DPR King. The barbarian can't compare to the sorcerer at area blastage nor typed damage.
If you want compare leader sticks I'd be happy to start a "Who's best in the buff" thread for at-will buff, party buff, nova buff comparisons. This is not that thread.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
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You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
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DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 6:23PM
#89
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Date Joined:
Jul 10, 2003
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apples to apples, namely Damage.
Not all damage is equally effective, burning down single targets is a very effective strategy.
And leader buffs shouldn't be overly discounted, only overall DPR really matters.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 12, 2010 - 7:17PM
#90
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Borg, thanks for your service and trying to get this organized. It's complicated. One thing I'd recommend is to simply ignore anything hybrid. It's playtest, has been dumped on the community without any support, updates, additions, and is most likely going to change significantly. In fact, I'm pretty sure that most of the overpowered combos you still see popping up multiple times a day will be history once PHB 3 comes out. And that's not too far in the future. Until then, I'd recommend to simply ignore them altogether.
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