So close to breaking 50! As a personal preferance, I am glad to see a variant that put the rogue back on top. And while the owlbear requires some extra book keeping and is not fire-and-forget like pack outcast, it doesn't have the human/shifter requirement AND throws an extra 2 damage on top. Not a bad trade. Plus, the owlbear provides a lil extra options/tactics when you don't/can't riposte murder for some reason.
I also want to point out another thing about the Unseelie Agent that my owlbugbear brings up: people who want to keep their builds relevant/on top of the heap need to update their builds periodically. If they don't they fall behind. New options are always going to be coming out, and sometimes, they are going to be strictly better than previous options to the point you can just assume you would pick them over the older option. Case in point, owlbear vice pack outcast. From a purely theoretical DPR standpoint, the owlbear is strictly better than pack outcast. Are we going to rule out the owlbear from new builds in deference to older builds with pack outcast, just so we don't have to refigure in the +2 dmg to all their numbers? The same could be said of all the old charging builds that realized there was a free ~8 DPR when they grab a boar mount. We didn't discount those builds just because it could have been added to all the old chargers.
I also have to point out that several of the older builds did exactly what you were worried about: a handful assume a magic weapon of some sort to make the build work (I recall one needing a level 3 weapon). It was why I had originally threw in the additional calculations when a player got a basic magic weapon. Unseelie agent just codified that DPR out of the gate without need for any caveats.
I agree with OneCrazyMojo; anyone can use a theme, so it should be allowed. If people want to update their builds to include new things (which they should) then by all means let them do so; until then, the old builds will be listed, and since they aren't actually obselete, they are still perfectly viable - and anyone looking at them might notice if they are missing a theme entirely (as all of mine are missing themes), and hopefully can add a reasonable theme. I don't worry about updating every last thing, because I'm looking for new builds.
You've made a convincing argument. I'll update the candidate.
Hear ye, Hear ye. O Candidates of yore, Ye shall be left in the dust if ye durst not upgrade yourselves with a theme which shall be henceforth acceptable to all, both low level and high level.
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Shoot. Realized a flaw with the owlbugbear. Since you only have CA while your target is adjacent to your owlbear, the DM's optimal choice is to first shift away. While you still get to follow, your pet doesn't, so now the baddie is still going to draw an attack, but you no longer have CA, so no SA. Biiiig DPR hit.
Tl;dr- forget the build, riposte thief still best choice.
Got around to a lvl 12 version. Thief variant still beats out rogue version (by about 0.4 DPR). Some assumptions: -Your target is only adjacent to you. -At 100g a pop and a minor action, you can afford to apply a Frozen Whetstone to the Bloodiron Dagger every combat at the start. -Assuming frost vulnerability from the start is the norm here, so I went ahead and did the same. If you miss your target or attack a new one, subtract 4.75 from the expected damage. I should note that is a much more accurate real world value, since you will rarely need to attack the same monster more than once. -I went ahead and rolled the bonus crit damage from Bloodiron into the base crit math (6d10 once instead of two iterations of 3d10). Same result, unless the bonus crit damage on the next turn still counts as having the cold keyword (since the original attack does). I don't believe it does, but if anyone knows otherwise I will adjust the math. -The random +1.8 on the Riposte Strike crit math is from Acrobat's Trick (2*0.9). -For clarity, the attack sequence is Riposte Strike (crit > Free MBA) [ hit > Riposte Interrupt/OA (crit > Free MBA)]. Lvl 12 Human Thief Daggermaster 22 Dex 18 Str Feats- Cunning Stalker, Mark of Finding, Light Blade Exp, Nimble Blade, Backstabber, Silvery Glow, TW Fighting, TW Opening, Lasting Frost Items- Bloodiron Dagger +3, Shard of Merciless Cold(Paragon), Frost Shortsword +2, Shard of Merciless Cold(Heroic), Gloves of Ice, Iron Armbands of Power(Heroic), Frozen Whetstones(Heroic)
I’ve created a level 16 version of Arrow for the new king of DPR at that level. I just love archers and want to show that they can compete with their melee cousins. The build concept is very similar to the level 12 version, however changing the paragon path is essential for the level 16 feature of Morninglord.
Features:
Radiant Hunter adds Radiant damage for Morninglord feature
32 Frozen Whetstones adds Cold damage
Combat advantage and Cold vulnerability through frost cheese
Ring of Radiant Storm allows re-rolls on all damage rolls
Level 2: Weapon Focus (Crossbow) retrained to Pervasive Light
Level 4: Wintertouched
Level 6: Crossbow Expertise
Level 8: Walker of the Dark Path
Level 10: Hybrid Talent
Level 11: Lasting Frost
Level 11: Steady Shooter
Level 12: Called Shot
Level 14: Radiant Hunter
Level 16: Prime Quarry
ITEMS
Prime Shot Superior crossbow +4 x1
Bracers of Archery (paragon tier) x1
Ring of the Radiant Storm x1
Crown of the Brilliant Sun x1
Siberys Shard of Radiance (paragon tier)
Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3)
Gloves of Ice (paragon tier)
Frozen Whetstone (heroic tier) (32)
====== End ======
Edits:
1. Illeist made a good point below. I swapped out Weapon Focus for Pervasive Light to ensure each attack gains the benefit of the radiant vulnerability. I'm not clear on the keyword/damage type rules so this way there should be no question that the damage works.
2. Fixed the quarry 2d6 average damage roll from 7 to 9 since it can be re-rolled if desired as it's part of the radiant attack.
Was looking over the build (trying to see what I need to aim for the lvl 16 slot) when I noticied a few things regarding the item build. I was under the impression that the generally accepted rule used the method for creating a new character at higher than lvl 1 and then liquidating those items for the gp value to purchase your DPR gear. For lvl 16, that'd come to 160k gp. This setup has two 17s, one 16, two 14s, and an 11 for a total gp value 216k. There is also a boon, which is usually under DM purview only.
I tried looking for a gear rule, but there are a ton of posts to sift through. I thought I recalled there being a spot on the front page, but I didn't see it. I also noticied the key legend is missing from the front page as well. Anyway, just trying to find out what the accepted DPR King method is (whether the Arrow needs to trim back a little or if this opens up gear options).
Dumb question: why do the rogue builds assume that the riposte strike will trigger? I suppose in a 1:1 fight monster has to attack? thanks!
So when after a being hit by Riposte, the baddie has a couple of options: 1) Attack the rogue - draw the interrupt. 2) Move away(not shift) - draw an OA 3) Attack rogue/ally with ranged attack - draw OA 4) Attack ally in melee - no reprisal 5) Shift away and then do whatever - no reprisal
Vigilante Justice allows the interrupt to trigger if baddie does 4. Mark of Finding allows the rogue to follow should the bad shift away, at which point all of its new choices (options 1-4) will still draw some kind of attack. This is how the riposte builds can always assume the second attack.
You could probably get away without Vigilante Justice with a kind of anti-CA assumption by planning with your party to never get in melee range of your target. A number of prime shot style builds already make a similiar assumption.
Vigilante Justice doesn't trigger if the ally isn't adjacent (for example, you're flanking the monster). Mark of Finding doesn't help if the monster teleports, shifts several squares, or is a decent percentage of skirmishers.
That said, it's at least as likely as being able to charge every round or a (non-class feature) mount actually living consistently through an adventure, so it's probably more than reasonable to count it
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
