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3 years ago ::
Jan 18, 2010 - 2:46PM
#151
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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You need yourself some Heavy Armor and Robust Defenses, or you're gonna get hammered, mate.
Nice call on the Morninglord + Frostcheese + Pervasive Light + one Frost and one Radiant Weapon, though. Sheer genius.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 18, 2010 - 3:52PM
#152
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2009
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That sounds a bit to ridiculous.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 18, 2010 - 10:13PM
#153
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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Sorry, this build doesn't work, I misunderstood what Multiclass Mastery is supposed to do. Doesn't Work
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Item Independent (and yet cheesy) entry:
102.95 Half-elf Rogue Feycharger (30), by Mengu74 (4+@^)
Cheese Factor: Windrise Ports, Versatile Master, Fey Charge, Dragon Material
Basing this off other Reincarnate Champion Builds. I'm into Versatile Duelist these days, so that's how this one started. This is probably not difficult to beat, but I figure someone might benefit from the multiclass/racial line up here to come up with something better. And the item independent section was looking rather bare.
Half-elf, Rogue, Kensei, Reincarnate Champion
Widrise Ports, Kensei Focus Bastard Sword, Past Spirits Eladrin and Dragonborn
Str 26 Con 17 Dex 24 Int 13 Wis 10 Cha 14
Feats (nearly all relevant):
Level 1: Versatile Duelist
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)
Level 4: Backstabber
Level 6: Weapon Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 10: Student of the Sword
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Roundabout Charge
Level 14: Paragon Defenses (retrained to Robust Defenses at Level 21)
Level 16: Rash Sneak Attack (retrained to Fey Gambit at Level 26)
Level 18: Toughness (retrained to Overpowering Charge at Level 24)
Level 20: Bardic Dilettante
Multiclass Mastery: Berserker's Fury
Multiclass Mastery: Blade Initiate
Level 21: Multiclass Mastery
Level 22: Eladrin Swordmage Advance
Level 24: Draconic Arrogance
Level 26: Fey Charge
Level 28: Heavy Blade Mastery
Level 30: Reckless Charge
Powers:
Dilettante Howling Strike
Items:
Magic Bastard Sword +6
Howling Strike:
Attack: +40 (+8 Strength +15 level +3 proficiency +6 enhancement +3 expertise +1 Kensei +1 charge +1 reckless charge +2 combat advantage from Fey Gambit)
Damage: 2d10+3d6+5d8+38 (+8 strength +6 enhancement +3 feat +4 Kensei +1 versatile +8 brutal scoundrel +8 draconic arrogance)
Swordmage Advance:
Attack: +38
Damage: 2d10+22 (+8 strength +6 enhancement +3 feat +4 Kensei +1 versatile)
DPR = 0.75*82+0.10*137 + 0.65*33+0.10*63 = 102.95
I could boost it another few points with powerful charge instead of Paragon/Robust defenses, but didn't want to get yelled at for leaving that out. I was happy enough breaking 100 without items.
Edit: Oh and by the way, this guy ended up with training in 10 out of 17 skills.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2010 - 11:13AM
#154
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Date Joined:
Nov 25, 2006
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I can't decide which is more disturbing; that I put +Str on Twin Strike damage or that I post enormous numbers with it and nobody corrects me... I corrected my mistake and removed Shifter build (without a record, no real reason to (ab)use his Shifting). DPR is now ~13.8 now for a few example builds all this build are made with 20 in their attack stat, despite it not being particularly common array. I guess after the first one was made with a 20, else really had no choice but to follow, otherwise it wouldn't be fair. in retrospect, I could just make all of them with 18s. I don't know, guess it's still DPR kings thread, example builds or no. in due time, I might level up these guys to 2 and gear them up (made no sense to gear them in 1st), but that would imply another King of level 2 listing (interested anyone?) characters
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first one's a bit modified Elder_Basilisk's, trying to focus more on DPR then Nova
Human Paladin 1
Str 20, Wis 14
Str Domain, WE
Maul Holy Strike
Attack: +8
Hit: 2d6 + 5 + 2 + 2
0.65*16 + 0.05*21 = 11.45
I know, Str domain is terrible, but I figure it is better then WF until at least 3rd...
besides, the numbers were just too low otherwise
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Dragonborn Warlock 1
Str 16, Cha 20
Curse of Io's Blood
Eldritch Blast
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d10 + 5 + 1d6 + 1 +3
DPR: (0.7*18)+(0.05*25)=13.85
a "normal" warlock that I posted together with melee version, this one is a much more stereotypical one
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Human Swordmage 1
Int 20
White Lotus Riposte, Arcane Reserves
Longsword Booming Blade
Attack: +8 vs AC
Hit: 1d8 + 5 + 2
DPR: 0.65*11.5 + 0.05*15 + 0.7*5 = 11.725
with mark and booming blade, I guess that's enough incentive for target to attack you, provoking White Lotus Riposte in the process
going twohander would help the DPR, but that's just wrong
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Halfling Storm Sorcerer 1
Cha 20, Dex 16
Sorcerer Blade Channneling
Lightning Strike
Attack: +8 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + 5 + 3 (+ 3)
DPR: 0.75*12.5 + 0.05*16 + 0.8*3 = 12.575
requires two targets to pull off, but a lot more interesting then Acid Orb spam
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Githzerai Monk 1
Dex 20, Wis 16
Githzerai Blade Master
Dancing Cobra (Centered Flurry of Blows)
Attack: +5 vs Ref
Hit: 1d10 + 5 + 2 (+2 +3)
DPR: 0.6*17.5 + 0.05*22 = 11.6
if you have a heavy hitting defender, who's mark did not kick in this turn, you might consider intentionally provoking for another Wis on damage
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Dwarf Avenger 1
Wis 20
Dwarven Weapon Training
Ex.Axe Overwhelming Strike
Attack: +7 vs AC
Hit: 1d12br2 + 5 + 2
DPR: ((1-(1-0.65)^2) - (1-(1-0.05)^2))*14.5 + (1-(1-0.05)^2)*26.5 = 13.89375 ~ 13.9
a more common type of avenger then my MBA charger. I feel counting on Censure as a constant benefit is wishful thinking
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Wilden Druid 1
Wis 20
IE
Storm Spike
Attack: +6 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + 5 (+5)
DPR: 0.65*9.5 + 0.05*13 + 0.65*5 = 10.325 ~ 10.3
after hitting, close in to dissuade it from moving with Savage Rend (or make your allies do it for you!)
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Human Druid 1
Wis 20, Str 13
Enraged Boar Form, Powerful Charge
Pounce Charge
Attack: +7 vs Ref
Hit: 1d8 + 5 + 2 + 2
DPR: 0.7*13.5 + 0.05*17 = 10.3
a more beastly approach, charging like a savage animal we are
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Deva Invoker 1
Wis 20, Con 13, Dex 13
Raging Storm
Divine Bolts
Attack: +5 vs Ref, against 2 targets
Hit: 1d6 + 5
DPR: ( 0.6*10.5 + 0.05*12 ) * 2 = 13.8
Hand of Radiance provides quite a bit more damage (easily up to 18 DPR), but assuming 3 targets is too much
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Genasi Wizard 1
Int 20, Str 16
Elemental Empowerment
Scorching Burst
Attack: +5 vs Ref (burst 1 in 10)
Hit: 1d6 + 5 + 3
DPR: 0.6*11.5 + 0.05*14 = 8.175
Cloud of Daggers with maxed Wis would deal more single target DPR, but now we're just being silly.
other (in my opinion) stereotypical build, already made and posted:
15.8125 DPR Githzerai Assassin(1st), by Intro
14 DPR Human Archer Ranger (1st), by Mengu74
15.425 DPR - 16.5 DPR (Ch) Dragonborn Melee Warlock (1st) by tl
19.95 DPR (CA) Bugbear Brutal Rogue (1st) by tl
12.44 DPR Human Barbarian(1st), by Elwyndas
13.85 DPR Goliath Fighter(1st), by ElricEN
few posts back I posted all my contesters, among them a 1st level charging Avenger. there never was a 1st level charging Avenger, and as I was trying to remake it, I couldn't reach the same numbers. the best seems a longtooth avenger, charging with a Ex.Axe. but that's just Dwarf Avenger from higher in this thread + 20 Str charge stupidness, which doesn't deserve a mention (same number can be achieved with a human taking Powerful Charge, but you get even less Wis). I think DPR numbers should be rounded to two decimal places at most, 34.64305 DPR looks just stupid (most of them are my entries anyway, I just didn't think of that sooner). I'm sure you know, but vulnerabilities stacking was nerfed in today's errata. Netarious' Storminglord took a hit, but you got some feat space now at least. it seems that encounter nova isn't getting much attention (btw, would AP be allowed in an encounter nova?) also, are the entries in the 1st post shuffled or am I just missing the pattern? perhaps sorting by DPR or (CA)/(Ch) requirements would make more sense? one of the links at level 6 rogue is broken.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2010 - 12:30PM
#155
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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Thank you. I'll clean these up later today.
I roughly sort them by DPR.
I'll check the level 6 links and fix it.
No AP for encounter nova. while you do get it more frequently than a daily power, but it's not every encounter. Perhaps the nova is only for the 1/2 of encounters that matter and should be allowed. I'll need to recheck the entries for daily usages. I had been defaulting to daily if AP was used. I prolly should mention that an AP can be used for both daily and encounter. I'll also clean up to 2 decimal places.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
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You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
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DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2010 - 12:36PM
#156
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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I don't think the errata affects my build at all. I'm not stacking vulnerabilities of the same damage type.
Burning Radiance gives v-rad10
Pelor's Blessing says "when a target is vulnerable you do extra damage"
Symbol of Divine Light specifically says it increases an existing vulnerability
@borg - please note the following amended DPRs for my Storminglord builds (I've updated the posts in this thread)
All are cheese 16@
Level 16: DPR 90.83
Level 24: DPR 152.41
Level 30: DPR 178.91
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3 years ago ::
Jan 19, 2010 - 2:00PM
#157
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Date Joined:
Nov 25, 2006
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@netarious: really sorry, I read it as different vulnerabilities don't stack... was this new rule really ever questionable? here used to be a Rogue|Tempest, but it was full of errors, so here's a stand-in... my 1st level brutal bugbear leveled Brutal Bugbear; DPR 30
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Bugbear Brutal Rogue 6 (@)
Dex 20, Str 18
feats:
Backstabber, Versatile Duelist, WE, WF
gear:
Mage's Bastard Sword +2, Iron Armbands of Power, Gauntlets of Blood
Bastard Sword Piercing Strike
Attack: +16 vs Ref
Hit: 1d12 + 2d8 + 15 breakdown
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3 (lvl) + 5 (Dex) + 2 (Ench) + 3 (prof) + 1 (feat) + 2 (CA)
5 (Dex) + 2 (Ench) + 4 (Str on SA) + 2 (Bracers) + 1 (gauntlets) + 1 (versatile)
target will be bloodied 50% of the time, so gauntlets provide half their bonus DPR (CA): (0.9*30.5)+(0.05*51) = 30 EDIT: I noticed you added cheese number for off-hand Vanguard. in that case, my highest 6th level entry (Longtooth Avenger (not the no-offhand-Vanguard version)) should get (5) may I suggest making (5) something more that would include Subtle for example, like "applying offhand properties to mainhand attack and it making no sense". well, I can't write it better then that, but it gets the message over
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3 years ago ::
Jan 20, 2010 - 3:43PM
#158
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Item Independent (and yet cheesy) entry:
102.95 Half-elf Rogue Feycharger (30), by Mengu74 (4+@^)
Feats (nearly all relevant):
Level 10: Student of the Sword
Level 20: Bardic Dilettante
Multiclass Mastery: Berserker's Fury
Multiclass Mastery: Blade Initiate
Level 21: Multiclass Mastery
There is a bug in the CB for Windrise Ports and the limit of multiclass feats. The background allows you to take an unlimited number of class-specific multiclass feats. You are limited to two, even with the Multiclass Mastery feat.
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3 years ago ::
Jan 20, 2010 - 5:46PM
#159
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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I posted this on the DPR guide but did not see a response.
When comparing DPR, what is the measurement time period? With something spamming an at-will, that is pretty easy... you just calculate the at-will.
What if I am planning on using Encounter powers (say, three of them) as my basic attack sequence? How is DPR calculated then in a way that can be compared to a DPR calculation for an at-will spam?
What if a Daily or even Daily item power is being used?
How do you derive burst powers... is there an assumption of the average 5 monsters? Or something else?
What if some other power is being used, such as a class feature like Darkspiral Aura? Considered in some way or just thrown out?
I'm curious how my striker compares to the builds here, but I don't spam at-wills.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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3 years ago ::
Jan 20, 2010 - 6:20PM
#160
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Date Joined:
Feb 24, 2009
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I posted this on the DPR guide but did not see a response.
When comparing DPR, what is the measurement time period? With something spamming an at-will, that is pretty easy... you just calculate the at-will.
What if I am planning on using Encounter powers (say, three of them) as my basic attack sequence? How is DPR calculated then in a way that can be compared to a DPR calculation for an at-will spam?
What if a Daily or even Daily item power is being used?
How do you derive burst powers... is there an assumption of the average 5 monsters? Or something else?
What if some other power is being used, such as a class feature like Darkspiral Aura? Considered in some way or just thrown out?
I'm curious how my striker compares to the builds here, but I don't spam at-wills.
Several of these questions don't have any one answer - there are opinions on them.
DPR is often measured in terms of what can be reproduced ad infinium, which is why at-will powers are used. If you are using an encounter power (or a series of them), then you need to have a way to continuously use those powers for your numbers to be acurate DPR figures.
If you are using a combo just once/encounter, then that's a good thing to measure as well, but it is more a type of burst damage (or if all done in one round it's nova damage), which are a different sort measurement of character power.
If you have a cycle of encounter powers that you are recharging somehow, but you can constantly reproduce the cycle, then just figure the dmg each round and then divide by the number of rounds it takes to pull it off.
If it's a matter of using encounters powers to buff, but you can do it every encounter, then it's usually fair to start DPR calculations with the buffs running.
When it comes to AoE damage, it's pretty much impossible to make any sort of equal comparison to single target DPR. The reason is because most people value single target damage much more from a striker, arguing that if two characters do the same amount of damage but one of them splits that damage between two targets, the party gets less utility from the multi-attacker. This seems to be true to some extent, but at some point there must be an equivalence made IMO (for instance if the multi-attack does 80% dmg to primary target and 60% to three other targets, are they really adding less to the party than the striker doing full dmg to the primary?).
Anyway, hope this helps a little.
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