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2 years ago ::
Sep 15, 2011 - 5:45AM
#1411
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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The best crit-fisher build I can think of would be an overwhelming strike-based KAM build, with martial supremacy. 4 rolls via Oath & Martial Supremacy, and then another 4 if you hit and prone the poor guy. Incrediable feat sink, of course.
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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2 years ago ::
Sep 15, 2011 - 7:24AM
#1412
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2005
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Heh Kilpatds; look at page 140, I built the Avenger/KAM; he dishes out 476 DPR at level 30, but he hasn't been posted to the front page yet. Additionally, just building an Avenger crit striker, before KAM existed, results in One Stroke to Kill Them All, or the Avenger/PMC Ranger/Martial Archetype, who both kick in around 250 DPR.
To Styrx, another build is the Avenger/Ardent Champion/Lorekeeper, who grabs Vorpal Weapon from an Artificer; that gives you your 18-20 crit build.
Or build an entire party instead of just one character; now have an Avenger, with an Artificer Lorekeeper ally, and a Fatesinger bard ally; now your Avenger can truly concentrate on damage (probably MC Barbarian for Hurricane of Blades), get 18-20, 4 dice rolls choose top (none of this junk of Martial Supremacy making you choose your second roll), and deal out a 1700 average encounter nova vs a level 35 soldier. (I haven't decided the other 2 characters for that party yet; probably my own version of the Cheesewizard (although I had never thought of the immunity piercing stuff, so that's an awesome thread), and then one of my Storm Genasi Archers to take advantage of the Fatesinger.)
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2 years ago ::
Sep 19, 2011 - 10:50PM
#1413
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2010
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How about a Monk build? I posted a similar version of this on the forums a while back, but here's a build optimized for DPR. Feel free to check my math; it's pretty late. Build
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 12
Revenant, Monk, Unseen Hand
Monastic Tradition Option: Stone Fist
Choose your Race in Life: Half-Elf
Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 19, CON 16, DEX 21, INT 9, WIS 12, CHA 11
STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 13, DEX 16, INT 8, WIS 11, CHA 10
AC: 25 Fort: 24 Ref: 25 Will: 23
HP: 88 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 22
POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Revenant Utility: Dark Reaping
Monk Feature: Stone Fist Flurry of Blows
Ranger Attack 1: Twin Strike
FEATS
Level 1: Half-Elf Soul
Level 2: Ki Focus Expertise
Level 4: Implement Focus (Ki focuses)
Level 6: Sneak of Shadows
Level 8: Superior Implement Training (Accurate ki focus)
Level 10: Two-Fisted Shooter
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Starblade Flurry
ITEMS
Ki Hand crossbow +2 x1
Amulet of Protection +3 x1
Shimmering Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +2 x1
Blurred Strike Ki Focus +2 x1
Ki Dagger +1 x1
====== End ====== Twin Strike:
+20 to hit
+6 Level
+5 Dex
+2 Proficiency (Hand Crossbow)
+2 Enhancement (Ki Focus)
+2 Expertise
+1 Accurate Ki Focus
+2 CA (Owlbear)
+13.5 damage (First Attack)
+3.5 Hand Crossbow
+2 Enhancement
+2 Focus
+2 Bracers
+2 Owlbear
+13.5 damage (Second Attack)
+56 Damage (First Flurry)
+11 on target of attack
+7 (Base Flurry)
+4 (Ki Weapons)
+15 on adjacent enemy
+7 (Base Flurry)
+4 (Ki Weapons)
+4 (Not targeted by triggering attack)
+15 on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
+15 on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)
+40 Damage (Second Flurry)
Previous damage -16 from Ki Weapons
First attack DPR: .75(13.5) = 10.125
Second attack DPR: .75(13.5) = 10.125
First Flurry: (1-(.25^2))*56 = 52.5
Second Flurry: (1-(.25))*40 = 30
Crit DPR: (11.5*.05)*2 = 1.15
Total DPR: 103.9
Edit: Removed Dex mod damage and recalculated DPR to reflect kilpatds's kindness (on the internet, no less) Edit: Fey Beast Tamer! Also, made the Flurry damage a bit more separate to correct math errors.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 12:18AM
#1414
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Date Joined:
Nov 16, 2007
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You do not get to add the dexterity mod to the damage rolls of twin strike.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 9:04AM
#1415
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2010
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Pardon my derp. New DPR, then: DPR
Show
Twin Strike:
+20 to hit
+6 Level
+5 Dex
+2 Proficiency (Hand Crossbow)
+2 Enhancement (Ki Focus)
+2 Expertise
+1 Accurate Ki Focus
+2 CA (Pack Outcast+Shimmering Cloak)
+65.5 damage (First Attack)
+3.5 Hand Crossbow
+2 Enhancement
+2 Focus
+2 Bracers
+11 Flurry on target of attack
+3 Flurry
+4 Strength
+4 Ki Weapons
+15 Flurry on adjacent enemy
+3 Flurry
+4 Strength
+4 Ki Weapons
+4 not targeted by triggering attack
+15 Flurry on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
+15 Flurry on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)
+49.5 damage (Second Attack)
Previous damage -16 from Ki Weapons
First attack DPR: .75(65.5)= 49.125
Second attack DPR: .75(49.5)= 37.125
Total DPR: 86.25
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 10:39AM
#1416
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2003
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Er, wouldn't that be:
First Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
2nd Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
Flurry: (1-(0.25)^2) * 16 = 15.
Total DPR: 89.25 ?
Basically, even you miss with the first attack of twin strike, you can still apply your flurry damage on the 2nd attack. So you could either do
First attack: chance of hitting, and thus doing 65.5 damage
Second attack: chance of hitting, and thus doing 49.5 damage if the first attack hit, or 65.5 if it missed
which would look like
First Attack: 0.75 * 65.5 = X
2nd Attack: 0.75 * (0.75*49.5 + 0.25*65.5) = Y
DPR = X + Y
or you could do
Each Twin strike attack: chance of hitting * hit damage
Flurry: chance of not missing twice times bonus damage 1/turn
which is what I did up top.
(And you're not including crit damage. Crit: maximize the d6 for 2.5, then add 2d8 for the crit line. That's 11.5 extra damage on a crit, which happens 0.05 of the time, or adds 0.575 to each twin strike. Making total DPR 90.4)
"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 12:47PM
#1417
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2010
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Er, wouldn't that be:
First Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
2nd Attack: 0.75 * 49.5 = 37.125
Flurry: (1-(0.25)^2) * 16 = 15.
Total DPR: 89.25 ?
Each Twin strike attack: chance of hitting * hit damage
Flurry: chance of not missing twice times bonus damage 1/turn
which is what I did up top.
(And you're not including crit damage. Crit: maximize the d6 for 2.5, then add 2d8 for the crit line. That's 11.5 extra damage on a crit, which happens 0.05 of the time, or adds 0.575 to each twin strike. Making total DPR 90.4)
Thanks, kilpatds! So, let's try this once more.
DPR
Show
Twin Strike:
+20 to hit
+6 Level
+5 Dex
+2 Proficiency (Hand Crossbow)
+2 Enhancement (Ki Focus)
+2 Expertise
+1 Accurate Ki Focus
+2 CA (Pack Outcast+Shimmering Cloak)
+65.5 damage (First Attack)
+3.5 Hand Crossbow
+2 Enhancement
+2 Focus
+2 Bracers
+11 Flurry on target of attack
+3 Flurry
+4 Strength
+4 Ki Weapons
+15 Flurry on adjacent enemy
+3 Flurry
+4 Strength
+4 Ki Weapons
+4 not targeted by triggering attack
+15 Flurry on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
+15 Flurry on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)
+49.5 damage (Second Attack)
Previous damage -16 from Ki Weapons
First attack DPR: .75(49.5) = 37.125
Second attack DPR: .75(49.5) = 37.125
Bonus first Flurry DPR: (1-(.25)^2)*16 = 15
Crit DPR: (11.5*.05)*2 = 1.15
Total DPR: 90.4
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 3:27PM
#1418
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2009
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+65.5 damage (First Attack)
+3.5 Hand Crossbow
+2 Enhancement
+2 Focus
+2 Bracers
+11 Flurry on target of attack
+3 Flurry
+4 Strength
+4 Ki Weapons
+15 Flurry on adjacent enemy
+3 Flurry
+4 Strength
+4 Ki Weapons
+4 not targeted by triggering attack
+15 Flurry on enemy within 5 (Starblade Flurry)
+15 Flurry on enemy within 10 (Unseen Hand)
Are you counting on being adjacent to 2 targets at-will? I don't think that's a valid assumption for DPR King.
Also Ki Weapon damage bonuses are once per turn so only one of the flurry attacks would gain the +4 (or two gain +2).
Awesome concept by the way!
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2 years ago ::
Sep 20, 2011 - 7:37PM
#1419
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2010
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Are you counting on being adjacent to 2 targets at-will? I don't think that's a valid assumption for DPR King.
Also Ki Weapon damage bonuses are once per turn so only one of the flurry attacks would gain the +4 (or two gain +2).
Awesome concept by the way!
Thanks! I've played a build similar to this for 12 levels now, but its lack of at-will double-flurrying was a constant frustration.
The adjacency requirements are difficult. That's why most of the build's encounter and daily powers include slides, pulls, and large amounts of shifting; somewhere on the board, there are two enemies next to each other. I aim to make it there.
That said, this is maximum damage; Even if there's just one enemy adjacent, one within 5, and one within 10, the DPR would be ((34.5*.75)*2) + ((.1-(.25)^2)*16) + (.05*(11.5)*2) = 67.9.
The first four targets are damaged by a single use of the Flurry of Blows power. The second use of the power does not benefit from the +4 damage, but all four targets of the first use would. The items specifies that the extra damage is to the power's "targets", not just to the first creature targeted by the power.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 23, 2011 - 4:28PM
#1420
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[Edit: Can't get vanguard +2, oops. Going to have to use the Dire Boar]
L6: Human, Warlock|Executioner
20 Charisma (or Constitution) 17 Dexterity
-- Pack Outcast Theme
Because of Pack Outcast, I always have CA. Charge is required.
Minor Curse, Move (position), Standard Charge w/Eldritch Strike:
Mounted:
-- Feats: Spear Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 Dire Boar, L6 Horned Helm, L5 Vanguard Lance +1 , GP Bracers of Mighty Striking
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 2 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +15 vs AC 20 = 20% miss // 75% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 SE + 1 enh + 1 versatile + 2 item + 1d10 lance + 1d10 lance (mounted+ch) + 1d10 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH [+ 1d8 crit] =
3d10+4d8+1d6+10 [+1d8 crit] = 48 // 82.5 crit
=> 0.75 * 48 + 0.05 * 82.5 + 0.75 * (0.55 * 20 + 0.05 * 29) = 49.4625 DPR
Unmounted:
-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Sneak of Shadows, Mindbite Scorn, Surprising Charge, Killing Curse
-- Items: L7 devastating ki focus +1, L6 Horned Helm, L5 vanguard dagger +1, GP Bracers of Mighty Striking, non-magical rapier
The idea here is to have a vanguard off-hand weapon, which grants the +1d8 on charges even when not used as a weapon. You use the devastating Ki Focus (thanks to draconisorion for the idea) and a plain rapier in the attack.
To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 3 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +16 vs AC 20 = 15% miss // 80% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 1 LBE + 2 enh + 2 item + 1d8 rapier + 1d8 SC + 1d8 vanguard + 1d8 attack finesse + 2d8 curse + 1d6 HH [+ 1d8 crit] =
6d8+1d6+10, but all 1's and 2's are 3's = 43.25 // 68.5
=> 0.80 * 43.25 + 0.05 * 68.5 = 38.025 DPR
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