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2 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 8:51AM #1401
delewobmesid
Date Joined: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 46
There are a few math errors in the current level 1 king of dpr (unless I'm misunderstanding the calculation formula) ; editted to correct bad base damage...

Human Scout, Light Blade Expertise, Spiked Chain Training

1: dpr for 2d4 is 5, not 4.5
2: target AC at 1st level is 15, not 14

Accounting for this creates the following results
CA,CH (+13/+12 vs ac 15 for 2d4 + 8)
Main Hand: .85*13 + .05*16 = 11.85
Off Hand .9*(.80*13 + .05*16) = 10.80

DPR with CA,CH = 22.65

Without CA,CH (+10/+10 vs ac 15 for 2d4 +5)
Main hand = 0.7*10+0.05*13 = 7.65
Off hand = 0.75*(0.7*10+0.05*13) = 5.74

DPR without CA,CH = 13.39

still solid and a good idea...
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 07, 2011 - 10:03AM #1402
VonLazuli
Date Joined: Dec 7, 2009
Posts: 391

Sep 7, 2011 -- 8:51AM, delewobmesid wrote:

CA,CH (+13/+12 vs ac 15 for 2d4 + 8)
Main Hand: .85*14 + .05*16 = 12.7

You seem to have added 5 and 8 and got 14 ;-)

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2011 - 6:16AM #1403
Eustacio
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2008
Posts: 101
Edited my post with a L30 Encounter Nova King.  938.84 DPR/Encounter Nova
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 10:10PM #1404
Styrx
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 45

Sep 5, 2011 -- 8:25AM, d20danko wrote:

Sep 5, 2011 -- 8:11AM, T_Baggins wrote:

Aug 29, 2011 -- 2:58AM, Rhodium wrote:

Aug 27, 2011 -- 4:49AM, Styrx wrote:

### Ioun's Revenge

King of Lvl 16, 130.2 DPR Show

Submission: King of Lvl 16
Revision:
1.2
Class/Race:
Half-Elf Avenger MC Ranger PP Resurgent Wilder
Final Ability Scores: Str 16, Con 13, Dex 15, Int 9, Wis 24, Cha 11
Powers: Twin Strike, Overwhelming Strike
Feats: Valenar Weapon Training, Master at Arms, Two Weapon Fighting, Adept Dilletante, Power Attack, Power of Skill, Versatile Master, Two-Weapon Opening, Painful Oath, Devastating Critical
Items: Insight of the Vault (heroic tier), Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), War Ring (paragon tier) (2), Harmony Blade Double Scimitar +3, Gauntlets of Blood (paragon tier), The Raven Queen's Shroud (level 3), Frozen Whetstone (paragon tier) (5)
Setup: Have enough Frozen Whetstones.
Attack: Twin Strike vs Oath of Enmity with Harmony Blade Double Scimitar and Volatile Surges
Intention: Crit-fishing to get many additional attacks with harmony blade (no free action!)
Based on: -

Revisions Show

1.0 First try
1.1 Forgot Devastating Critical
1.2 Added Power Attack, Calculations corrected

Math Show

Twin Strike (first attack):
Hit (+20 vs AC 30, two rolls): 7 (Wisdom) + 8 (1/2 level) + 2 (Proficiency) + 3 (Enhancement) + 2 (Master at Arms) - 2 (Power Attack) = 52% crit 27.8% miss 20,3%
DPH: 3.5 crit 6 + 10.5 + 10.5 (Harmony Blade Double Scimitar +3, High Crit) + 3 (Enhancement) + 3 (Feat, Valenar Weapon Training) + 1 (Two-Weapon Fighting) + 6 (Power Attack) + 2 (Item, Iron Armbands of Power, Heroic) + 7 (Painful Oath) + 2 (Gauntlets of Blood, Paragon) + 4 (Frozen Whetstone, Paragon) + 0 crit 7 (Insight of the Vault) + 0 crit 5.5 (Devastating Critical) + 0 crit 10.5 (War Ring) + 0 crit 10.5 (War Ring) + 0.75 (The Raven Queen's Shroud, reroll 1d6<4) + 0 + 59.5 (Two-Weapon Opening, Overwhelming Strike) = 32.25 crit 148.75 + 66.64 (Harmony Blade Double Scimitar, Overwhelming Strike, iterationed crit)
DPR: (.52)(32.25) + (.278)(148.75 + 66.64) = 76.6

Twin Strike (second attack):

Hit (+20 vs AC 30, two rolls): 7 (Wisdom) + 8 (1/2 level) + 2 (Proficiency) + 3 (Enhancement) + 2 (Master at Arms) - 2 (Power Attack) = 52% crit 27.8% miss 20,3%
DPH: 3.5 crit 6 + 10.5 + 10.5 (Harmony Blade Double Scimitar +3, High Crit) +  3 (Enhancement) + 3 (Feat, Valenar Weapon Training) + 1 (Two-Weapon  Fighting) + 6 (Power Attack) + 2 (Item, Iron Armbands of Power, Heroic) + 1.421 (Painful Oath, first attack missed) +  2 (Gauntlets of Blood, Paragon) + 4 (Frozen Whetstone, Paragon) + 0  crit 7 (Insight of the Vault) + 0 crit 5.5 (Devastating Critical) + 0 crit 10.5 (War Ring) + 0 crit 10.5  (War Ring) + 0.152 (The Raven Queen's Shroud, reroll 1d6<4, first attack missed) = 24.07 crit 81.07 + 66.64 (Harmony Blade Double Scimitar, Overwhelming Strike, iterationed crit)
DPR: (.52)(24.07) + (.278)(81.07 + 66.64) = 53.6

Overwhelming Strike Math Show

Overwhelming Strike (on critical hit):
Hit (+20 vs AC 30, two rolls): 7 (Wisdom) + 8 (1/2 level) + 2 (Proficiency) + 3 (Enhancement) + 2 (Master at Arms) - 2 (Power Attack) = 60% crit 27.8% miss 20,3%
DPH: 3.5 crit 6 + 10.5 + 10.5 (Harmony Blade Double Scimitar +3, High Crit) + 7 (Wisdom) +  3 (Enhancement) + 3 (Feat, Valenar Weapon Training) + 1 (Two-Weapon  Fighting) + 6 (Power Attack) + 2 (Item, Iron Armbands of Power, Heroic) + 2 (Gauntlets of Blood, Paragon) + 4 (Frozen Whetstone, Paragon) + 0  crit 7 (Insight of the Vault) + 0 crit 5.5 (Devastating Critical) + 0 crit 10.5 (War Ring) + 0 crit 10.5  (War Ring) = 31.5 crit 88.5 + 66.64 (Harmony Blade Double Scimitar, Overwhelming Strike, iterationed crit)
DPR: (.52)(31.5) + (.278)(88.5 + 66.64) = 59.5

Iteration:
(.52)(31.5) + (.278)(88.5) = 40.98

40.98 + Σ(.278^1)(40.98) + ... + (.278^i)(40.98) = 56.76
40.98 + Σ(.278^1)(56.76) + ... + (.278^i)(56.76) = 62.84
...
40.98 + Σ(.278^1)(66.64) + ... + (.278^i)(66.64) = 66.64

I have a question about it: How do you add the psionic tag in all your  at-will attacks?

This is my question too. I ran every feat and item through the compendium just to double check, but I don't think this works.

The compendium incorrectly lists Ressurgent Wilder's lvl 16 feature as working with At-Will Attacks, instead of Psionic At-Will Attacks (per DSCS).  So that build doesn't work.  This catches many, many people.

My build bases on the Character Builder. The Resurgent Wilder Volatile Surges (16th level) Feature says here: "Your at-will attack powers can score a critical hit..."

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2 years ago  ::  Sep 12, 2011 - 10:24PM #1405
Styrx
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 45

My D&DI Subscription runs out, so I can't take a look into the current compendium entry. Borg285 should decide, if my build works...
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 9:28AM #1406
T_Baggins
Date Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 78
Not trying to be a D about it, but there is no controversy to "decide". The Dark Sun Campaign book, the compendium, and the online CB all say "at-will psionic attack powers". The official D&D updates have not changed it, so it does not work.

I would run the numbers on Ardent Champion and see how that looks.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 9:30AM #1407
erachima
Date Joined: Sep 4, 2010
Posts: 7,663
If you want resurgent wilder on an avenger, be a half-elf and take the Ardent MBA, rekey it to WIS, and go to town.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 2:51PM #1408
ZombieJ
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 32
L6: Mul, Slayer (CA, Ch)
20 Str, 17 Dex
-- Feats: Dwarven Weapon Training, Surprising Charge, Spear Expertise, Mounted Combat
-- Items: L7 Dire Boar, L6 Horned Helmet, L5 Vanguard Gouge +1, Bracers of Mighty Striking (bought)

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 str + 2 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 1 WT + 2 CA + 1 charge = +16 vs AC 20 = 15% miss // 80% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 dex + 5 mighty slayer + 1 exp + 1 enh + 2 BW stance + 4d6
gouge (brutal 1) + 1d8 vanguard + 1d6 HH + 2 item (+1d8 crit) = 40 normal // 58.5 crit

=> 0.8 * 40 + 0.05 * 58.5 + 0.8 * (0.7 * 21 + 0.05 * 29) = 47.845 DPR

However, I play with a party that includes a hunter that always knocks targets prone for us. Instead of taking mounted combat and getting a Dire boar, I have Headsman's Chop and an Obsidian Steed (level 3).

=> 0.8 * 50 + 0.05 * 68.5 = 43.42 DPR against prone targets

I personally prefer the Obsidian Steed because I hate having to deal with dead mounts. My obsidian steed dies almost every adventure I play in, but because its a wonderous item I can just conjure it again in the next adventure. In addition, I don't have to worry about where to keep it, I just conjure it when needed.

With new controllers such as the hunter and bladesinger my friends and I have found that with a little party optimization we are almost always attacking prone targets. The gouge is the only weapon that can be used for both headsman's chop and surprising charge.

I don't play this particular slayer, I actually play an eladrin slayer. The eladrin has the eladrin soldier feat, which also gives proficiency and +2 to damage with the gouge (since its a spear as well). Instead of being strength based, my slayer MC swordmage for intelligent blademaster. This effectively gives him +1 to damage because he has int and dex as off stats, lets him pick up swordmage advance for another basic attack on a move action for nova, and the extra skill is very useful for this particularly skill starved class. In our party (which is heavily PARTY optimized), that extra skill was worth it alone to fill in some gaps we had. This build also ends up winning over a rogue in our party because we have a lazy bavura warlord, which this build is much more potent for.

Also, when it comes to stances, I often use the mobile blade stance to get back into charge range. I included the other stance because I was assuming ideal conditions, since in real combat I often find my mount doesn't last very long either due to bursts, blasts, and the occassional malicious DM.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 13, 2011 - 3:47PM #1409
ZombieJ
Date Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 32
I thought I would do a write-up for the blackguard we also have in our party.

L6: Human, Blackguard (CA, Ch)

20 Cha, 17 Dex
-- Human at-will power: Virtuous Strike
-- Feats: Weapon Proficiency (Gouge), Sneak of Shadows (rogue mc), Surprising Charge, Spear Expertise, Mounted Combat
-- Items: L7 Dire Boar, L6 Horned Helmet, L5 Vanguard Gouge +1, Bracers of Mighty Striking (bought)

To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 cha + 2 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 2 CA + 1 charge = +15 vs AC 20 = 20% miss // 75% hit // 5% crit
Damage: 5 cha + 5 dark menace + 1 exp + 1 enh + 2 spirit of vice (fury) + 4d6
gouge (brutal 1) + 1d8 vanguard + 1d6 HH + 2 item (+1d8 crit) = 40 normal // 58.5 crit

=> 0.75 * 40 + 0.05 * 58.5 + 0.75 * (0.7 * 21 + 0.05 * 29) = 45.035 DPR

However, we play with a party that includes a hunter that always knocks targets prone for us. Instead of taking mounted combat and getting a Dire boar, the blackguard has Headsman's Chop and an Obsidian Steed (level 3).

=> 0.75 * 50 + 0.05 * 68.5 = 40.92 DPR against prone targets

The blackguard does a little less damage due to being a less accurate, but the lack of damage is made up for by his (slightly) more powerful encounter powers (for an essentials character at least). He also starts getting daily powers at level 5, which help a lot with nova. Also this at will damage is radiant, which has substantial potential for abuse later.
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2 years ago  ::  Sep 15, 2011 - 4:33AM #1410
Styrx
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 45

Sep 13, 2011 -- 9:30AM, erachima wrote:

If you want resurgent wilder on an avenger, be a half-elf and take the Ardent MBA, rekey it to WIS, and go to town.

My intention was to build a crit-fisher to make an attack roll as often as possible per round. With a crit on 18-20 the chance would be 47.8% per turn (four attack rolls with twin strike vs. oath of enmity). With the Ardent MBA the chance would be only 27.8% (only two attack rolls per turn). With a Jagged Weapon and a crit on 19-20 (with twin strike vs. oath) the chance would be only 34.4%, but would lose the crit iteration with the Harmony Blade property.