@Song: Would monsters also be held to the 1 Immediate action / round limit also?
I'm putting this out there to my viewers: For AoE strikers does this work? AoE DPR: 3x3 = 2 targets, 5x5 = 3 targets, 7x7 = 4 targets, +1 if AoE targets enemies only.
I think that works. Also don't forget to include War Wizardry with that +1.
There has been a proposal for a conversion table . I'd like to get some thoughts on the incorporation of Sorcerous Flux, War Wizardry, and Friendly vs. Non-Friendly penalty. I just feel like I need some more discussion for me to feel comfortable instantiating a rule. I propose that Sorcerous Flux is worth the same as Storm sorcerers being able to do donut attacks
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
There has been a proposal for a conversion table . I'd like to get some thoughts on the incorporation of Sorcerous Flux, War Wizardry, and Friendly vs. Non-Friendly penalty. I just feel like I need some more discussion for me to feel comfortable instantiating a rule. I propose that Sorcerous Flux is worth the same as Storm sorcerers being able to do donut attacks
The table sounds just about right IMO. However, I think war wizardry and sorcerous flux shouldn't really modify the penalty, here is why:
Sorcerous Flux: DPR characters will be optimized to a good to hit ratio - i'd think about 90% to 95% chance to hit a NAD of 42. So if a PC is in the burst, he has a very good chance to get hit, no matter how you switch the rolls.
War Wizardry: -5 is nice, but it's still a 70% chance to hit. Half damage is also nice, but due to the hitpoint difference between PCs and Monsters this is still very problematic (even more so if the attack has additional effects attached of course).
Those points are more valid for heavily optimized characters. If your chance to hit is only 60% anyway, and your damage only 30, then sorcerous flux + war wizardy is probably a safe bet. However, if your chance to hit is 95% and you do 70+ damage on a hit, sorcerous flux + war wizardry are not enough.
There has been a proposal for a conversion table . I'd like to get some thoughts on the incorporation of Sorcerous Flux, War Wizardry, and Friendly vs. Non-Friendly penalty. I just feel like I need some more discussion for me to feel comfortable instantiating a rule. I propose that Sorcerous Flux is worth the same as Storm sorcerers being able to do donut attacks
The table sounds just about right IMO. However, I think war wizardry and sorcerous flux shouldn't really modify the penalty, here is why:
Sorcerous Flux: DPR characters will be optimized to a good to hit ratio - i'd think about 90% to 95% chance to hit a NAD of 42. So if a PC is in the burst, he has a very good chance to get hit, no matter how you switch the rolls.
War Wizardry: -5 is nice, but it's still a 70% chance to hit. Half damage is also nice, but due to the hitpoint difference between PCs and Monsters this is still very problematic (even more so if the attack has additional effects attached of course).
Those points are more valid for heavily optimized characters. If your chance to hit is only 60% anyway, and your damage only 30, then sorcerous flux + war wizardy is probably a safe bet. However, if your chance to hit is 95% and you do 70+ damage on a hit, sorcerous flux + war wizardry are not enough.
Perhaps we could calculate what our AC and defenses should be, as well as our HP, and have the submitter calculate what percentage of their ally's HP each hit is doing, and use that percentage as a penalty to the Ratio multiplier. For example if you did 10% of an average PC's HP in expected damage (calculating in average reflex) then you would take your ratio, let's say 1.45, and take a .1 penalty, so 1.35 would be your final reduction. A 3x3 has no allies in it a 5x5 has 1 ally a 7x7 has 2 allies in it, and so forth.
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Shameful plug for an android DnD app I'm wanting to make. If there are any android developers out there please contact me so we can put our brains together. If you think there are other features you'd like please tell me or post a comment on that thread.
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Perhaps we could calculate what our AC and defenses should be, as well as our HP, and have the submitter calculate what percentage of their ally's HP each hit is doing, and use that percentage as a penalty to the Ratio multiplier. For example if you did 10% of an average PC's HP in expected damage (calculating in average reflex) then you would take your ratio, let's say 1.45, and take a .1 penalty, so 1.35 would be your final reduction. A 3x3 has no allies in it a 5x5 has 1 ally a 7x7 has 2 allies in it, and so forth.
Thoughts?
Well, for ease of comparion i'd avoid anything more complicated than looking up a modifier from a max 2 row table like the one linked in your previous post. Everything else is too specific: Many parties i played with are not OK with powers damaging allies, no matter how much damage. Some parties might optimize their NADs, others might be ok with only 36. You'd have to give special penalties for status effects, depending how problematic it is - which is again not a problem with an easy answer. Some PCs might have party members that put up an effort to evacuate the squares surrounding enemies before your turn, others might hate you screwing with their tactical options. Etc.
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Thief of Thunder - keeps both focus damage (84 DPR prime target) and friendly burst 2 damage (62 DPR secondary targets) at the same time.
Stats: str 13->15 (+2) dex 14->16 (+3) con 14-16->26 (+8) wis 16-18->28 (+9)
Feats: Adept Dilettante Weapon Training (Wisdom) Arcane Implement Proficiency (light blade) Superior Implement Training (Resonating Dagger +4 dam/+1 slide) Arcane Admixture (Thunder) Resounding Thunder Enlarge Spell Chainmail Proficiency Backstabber Dual Implement Spellcaster Mark of Storm Raging Storm (feat bonus to damage) Focused Expertise Destructive Wizardry Lasting Frost Versatile Master Nimble Blade Devastating Critical
Items: Jagged Resonating Dagger+6 Magic Dagger+6 Resplendent Gloves (+5 untyped with will attacks) executioners Bracers (+3d6 on crit) agile chainmail+6 frozen whetstone ring of giants
to hit 15(lvl)+9(cha)+6(enh)+3(exp)+3(CA)+1(WT)+1(PP)+1(ED)+1(item) = +40 vs Will 42
ITEMS Accurate Staff of Ruin +6, Rhythm Blade Dagger+6, Battle Harness Leather +6, Neck+6, Resplendent Gloves(epic), Ring of Giants, War Ring, Syberis Shard of the Mage(paragon tier), Executioner's Bracers,
AB: 15 +8(int) +2 (exp) +6(enh) +1(accurate) +2(ring) +2(CA) +2(ED) +1(echo) = +38 vs NAD [+39 with enc genasi power]
The damage is kinda hard to calculate due to the extra roll from Sage of Ages. For simplicity, i'll assume first target gets roll twice, take better - but the extra roll can substitute any bad roll...
Genasi, Wizard|Swordmage, Divine Oracle, Sage of Ages Arcane Implement Mastery: Staff of Defense Elemental Manifestation: Stormsoul
FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 24, Con 12, Dex 15, Int 26, Wis 16, Cha 10.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 14, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8.
FEATS Hybrid Talent(Swordmage Warding) Elemental Empowerment Elemental Echo Implement Expertise (Staff) Superior Implement Training (Accurate staff) Enlarge Spell Resounding Thunder Dual Implement Spellcaster Destructive Wizardry Weapon Focus (staff) Armor Proficiency (leather) Arcane Admixture (thunder, Winged Horde) Hidden Sniper Improved Defenses MC Cleric Epic Will Quickened Spellcasting Wizard Implement Expertise
ITEMS Accurate Staff of Ruin +6, Rhythm Blade Dagger+6, Battle Harness Leather +6, Neck+6, Resplendent Gloves(epic), Ring of Giants, War Ring, Syberis Shard of the Mage(paragon tier), Executioner's Bracers
AB: 15 +8(int) +2 (exp) +6(enh) +1(accurate) +2(ring) +2(CA) +2(ED) +1(echo) = +38 vs NAD [+39 with enc genasi power]
The damage is kinda hard to calculate due to the extra roll from Sage of Ages. For simplicity, i'll assume first target gets roll thrice, take better - but the extra roll can substitute any bad roll...
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Here is a Con Based Infernal Hexblade charger I put together who is pulling some pretty hot At-Will DPR at level 16. ( I could use some help with the math but I clocked it at around 109 DPR with my poor math)
I just figured I'd apply the toys available to the regular Infernal Warlock and see what happened. I am assuming the character can charge each round with an at will teleport 3 as a move action and a Badge of the Berzerker. I am also assuming Combat Advantage with Permafrost built in.
Simply Teleport out of Melee, Charge The target with Eldritch Strike and then when you hit slide it 2 squares knocking it prone adjacent to you and follow up with a second Eldritch Strike Thanks to the Level 16 PP feature. On the enemy's turn they will be prone adjacent to you so they can stand taking their move action, then they can either try to move away provoking an OA or Face WLR and WLMR damage then being slid 2 squares away and possibly out of reach to complete the attack.
Power: Eldritch Strike Attack Bonus: +8half level +2expertise +3enhancement +6con +2proficiency +2 CA (granted by permafrost) Total: +23 vs reflex (+24 on a charge)
Damage: +6 Con mod +3 Enhancement +4 Bracers of Mighty Striking +10 Infernal Pact Reward +3 Syberis Shard of Cold +5 Lasting Frost +2 Spear Expertise (1st attack) +2d6 Horned Helm (1st attack) +2d6 Surprising Charge (1st attack)
Charge Damage 6d6 +32 Smite The Fallen Attack 2d6 + 30 White Lotus Riposte +11 White lotus Master's Riposte Attack 2d6 + 30
ITEMSBlade of Annihilation, Horned Helm (paragon tier), Bracers of Mighty Striking (paragon tier), Rushing Cleats (heroic tier), Badge of the Berserker +2, Frost Gouge +3, Eladrin Finemail +2, Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (paragon tier)
The main strength of the Hexblade is that it's Pact Reward applies to each attack so adding in a second and third triggered attack has a greater increase on DPR. This build is a bit of a glass cannon with lower defenses than I would normally play but several of the damage packages can be traded out for better defenses easy enough for actual play.
OK, I'm pretty much a newbie, but Hexblades use all Cha attacks, and don't have Eldritch Strike at all. What am I missing?
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
