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3 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2010 - 6:51AM
#1071
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2010
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Level 1 Bugbear Slayer
Class Features and Powers
Level 1: Heroic Slayer
Level 1: Weapon Talent
Level 1: Fighter Stances
*Berserker's Charge
Str(18) +4
Dex(18) +4
Feat: Surprising Charge
Weapon: Large Gouge, +2 prof, 2d8, Brutal 1, Axe, Spear [DSCS]
Attack: 4(Str) + 2(CA) + 1(Charge) + 1(Weapon Talent) + 2(Berserker's Charge) = 10 vs AC (7+10-1)/20 = Miss(1-4) Hit(5-19) Crit(20)
Damage: 2d8b1(Gouge) + 2d8b1(Surprising Charge) + 4(Str) + 4(Heroic Slayer/Dex)= 28
Damage: 16(Gouge) + 16(Surprising Charge) + 4(Str) + 4(Heroic Slayer/Dex) = 40
DPR: 0.20*0 + 0.75*28 + 0.05*40 = 23
Assuming CA and Charge
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3 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2010 - 9:35AM
#1072
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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I mulled over some builds if wouldn't get similar number with a Riposte Rogue (cf L6 Strangler). They all came in between about 80 and 95 DPR at L16. The best in fact uses catch-22 without Riposte. It's a bit more tactical demanding, but also more durable as it's always hidden instead of being in melee with some baddy. The advantage is that it scales very well, as it doesn't rely in a do-or-die fashion on its L16 feature. During Heroic you can easily play him as regular Riposte Rogue and then just retrain the feats. L12 & 16 Bugbear Rogue22/22 Dex, 20/22 Str -- Gritty Sergeant Background: Rapier prof, +1 init -- Cunning Sneak -- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Backstabber, Silvery Glow, Improved Cunning Sneak, Risky Shift, Acolyte of the Veil, Drawn Shadows, Lasting Frost // +L16: TWF, TWO -- Paragon Path: Champion of the Vigil -- Items: +3 Frost Rapier, Syberis Shard of Merciless Cold (Paragon), Gloves of Ice (Paragon), Bracers of Mighty Striking (Heroic / Paragon), +2 Frost Dagger; Enshrouding Candle, Assassin's Cloak, item with bonus to Stealth (eg. Boots of Stealth) -- relevant Powers: Acrobatic Strike, Persistent Tail Sequence:Requirement: no allys directly nearby (same as for example Melee Ranger using the Prime Shot feat chain) Basis: Enshrouding Candle & Drawn Shadows give us perma-concealment, which is enough to hide with Cunning Sneak -- shift 2 to hide -- Acrobatic Strike -> shift 2 again as effect to re-hide -- target can't attack us due being hidden, hence must either ---- move (OA !) and we also follow with Persistent Tail ---- shift (we stay adjacent with Persistent Tail) and then use a ranged attack (OA !) -- attacking always from hiding grants us CA, and due our PP 19-20 crit range and (L16) a re-roll when missing L12: 82.82 DPR
Show
To-hit: 6 lvl + 6//5 dex//str + 3 enh + 3 prof + 2 CA + 2 exp = +22 vs AC 26 = 15% miss // 75% hit // 10% crit, -5% on Str attacks
DMG: 6//5 dex//str + 2 exp + 3 enh + 3 feat + 1d10 rapier + 5 vul + 3 Shard + 2 GoI + 2 item + 3d8 SA = 45 hit // 70.5 crit, -1 on Str attacks
TWO MBA with Dagger: 5 str + 2 exp + 2 enh + 3 feat + 1d6 dagger + 5 vul + 1 Shard + 2 GoI + 2 item = 25.5 hit // 35 crit
(0.75 * 45 + 0.1 * (70.5 + (0.7 * 25.5 + 0.1 * 35))) + (0.7 * 44 + 0.1 * (69.5 + (0.7 * 25.5 + 0.1 * 35))) = 82.82 DPR L16: 103.59 DPR
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To-hit: 8 lvl + 6 dex//str + 3 enh + 3 prof + 2 CA + 2 exp = +24 vs AC 30 = 25% miss // 65% hit // 10% crit, reroll a miss
DMG: 6 dex//str + 2 exp + 3 enh + 3 feat + 1 TWF + 1d10 rapier + 5 vul + 3 Shard + 2 GoI + 4 item + 3d8 SA = 48 hit // 73.5 crit
TWO MBA with Dagger: 6 str + 2 exp + 2 enh + 3 feat + 1 TWF + 1d6 dagger + 5 vul + 1 Shard + 2 GoI + 4 item = 29.5 hit // 39 crit
2 * (1 + 0.25) * (0.65 * 48 + 0.1 * (73.5 + (1 + 0.25) * (0.65 * 29.5 + 0.1 * 39))) = 103.59 DPR @ Lej:How do you gain proficiency with the Gouge ? That background I use only works for martial weapons.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2010 - 10:54AM
#1073
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Date Joined:
Jun 24, 2008
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I hate seing the phrase "Assume CA". I really do think that DPR calcs should be done without assuming CA unless you can generate it yourself. And if you can generate it, its benefits should be based on your probability of having it for the attacks in question.
The process is simple:
1) Calculate "Base DPR" without CA
2) Calculate "CA DPR" with CA
3) Calculate "extra CA DPR", which is just (CA DPR - Base DPR) ... the increase in DPR due to CA on a given attack.
4) Calculate "CA Probability" - probability of having self-generated CA on each attack (generally meaning (1 - probability of missing on all previous attacks in this round and last round))
5) Actual DPR from each attack = Base DPR + extra CA DPR(CA Probability)
Doing it this way gives you two key stats:
A) Expected DPR if you're getting help with CA (the results of Step 2)
B) Actual expected DPR if you're not getting help with CA (the results of Step 5)
For any real-world application, #2 is going to be at least as important as #1. Right now, though, all we get for many of these builds is #1. Remember that for most characters, you're going to have to generate CA anew with each new target unless you have outside help. Even if you have a minor action utility granting CA, it's unlikely to be encounter-long.
[20:53] [SadisticFish] yeah  Llamas convinced me
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3 years ago ::
Oct 19, 2010 - 11:00AM
#1074
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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Very true.
But to defend my submissions, all of them have self-generating CA. Now in case that isn't automatic, you can assume 95%+ CA (for example Frostcheese and hitting on 2+). For the rare occasions that doesn't work, there's still utilities, APs to attack again, dazed targets, flanking, etc. Encounters aren't infinitely long.
IMHO that has to suffice here, considering how sloppy many other submissions are (for example ignoring item budget, having to eat OAs to charge the same target again, etc).
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3 years ago ::
Oct 21, 2010 - 7:41AM
#1075
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2005
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Two Things: My Marilith Summoner was updated to an Avenger Chassis; she now reaches 379 DPR. I've also built another Avenger charger, using Eldritch Strike, who achieves 179 DPR: Spoiler:
Show
Revenant Avenger/Student of Caiphon/Eternal Seeker
Con 16->26, Dex 13->17, Wis 16->24
Gouge Proficiency, Spear Expertise, Silvery Glow, Warlock MC, Unarmored Agility, Improved Defenses
Impaling Spear, Arcane Admix, Wintertouched, Lasting Frost, Deadly Axe, Painful Oath
Hand of Divine Guidance, Long Stride, Versatile Mastery, Half-Elf Soul, Power Attack, Punishing Radiance
Charge w/ Eldritch Strike (cold due to Arcane Admixture; Radiant due to Painful Oath) with Martial Supremacy
Level 30 ED feature: Keeper’s Prescience
+6 Rending Gouge, Bracers of Mighty Striking, Gloves of Ice, Shard of Frost, War Ring, Ring of Giants, Horned Helm
To Hit: +15 lvl +8 con +6 enh +3 feat +2 prof +2 CA -2 Power Attack +1 charge = +35 vs Ref 42, roll twice; if don’t crit, roll twice again; if it's still not a crit, check your Keeper's Prescience roll (also use your Keeper's Prescience roll if your second double roll results in a miss).
= 0.2775 + (1-0.2775)*0.2775 + (1- 0.47799375)*0.15= 55.6294688% crit
= (1-0.2775)*0.09 = 6.5025% miss (this number is currently too high, as it doesn't account for Keeper's Prescience)
= 1 – miss – crit = 37.8680312% hit
Damage: 4d5+4 base +3 expertise +4 feat +5 vuln +7 oath +9 PA +4.8 punishing +6 enh +6 item +4 gloves +5 shard +3d6 helm = 12+10.5+57.8
= 80.3
Crit: 20+18+57.8 maxed base +12 giants +6d6 rending +1d6 war +6d5+6 high crit = 156.3
MBA: only 35.5199062% hit, only 66.8 damage, only 135.3 crit
DPR: 0.556294688*80.3 + 0.556294688*156.3 + 0.47799375*(0.355199062*66.8 + 0.556294688*135.3)
= 178.9378215
AC: 41, F: 43, R: 38, W: 42
Comment of the day: Avenger's in epic have more potential for optimization than any other class, and (aside from things like slashers/zone sliders) always have higher DPR than any other class with a comparable build.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 21, 2010 - 10:27AM
#1076
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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School has been busy. I'm on my last semester for my masters. I plan on updating this weekend. Thanks all for these great candidates.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 21, 2010 - 2:59PM
#1077
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2005
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-- Acrobatic Strike -> shift 2 again as effect to re-hide
The errata states ..
Not Remaining Hidden: If you take an actionthat causes you not to remain hidden, you retainthe benefits of being hidden until you resolve theaction. You can’t become hidden again as part ofthat same action.
This doesn't work because of the specific stricture against becoming hidden as part of the same action that reveals you.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 21, 2010 - 3:33PM
#1078
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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Good catch - crazy new stealth rules... always with stealth errata...  But in fact I can also instead: -- (std) Acrobatic Strike ---- shift 2 -> hide ---- attack -- (move) shift 2 to hide again Or do I miss something again ?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 21, 2010 - 4:15PM
#1079
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2005
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Congratulations on your Masters Borg! Colour me supremely impressed.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 22, 2010 - 8:36PM
#1080
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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That was a crap-ton of updating. You guys are amazing. 82 DPR at level 12!!???!?!? talk about broken.
We had our first encounter nova level 6 candidate. Not that hard to beat, but as for right now, He's the king of level 6 encounter novas. Can you beat 65 damage?
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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