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3 years ago ::
Oct 13, 2010 - 12:16PM
#1041
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2005
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I have another (and MUCH better) charger to add to the mix: I went and updated the Supercharger in this thread: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... and on a single attack, he gets 160 DPR. So a single attack charger is now as good as most multi-attack characters for at-will DPR.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 13, 2010 - 12:44PM
#1042
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2010
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Nelphine broskie... please check your Inbox for a PM. Thanks.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 13, 2010 - 1:17PM
#1043
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2005
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Well I'll be.. there's PM's on these forums? MC-DrowBane was asking about Shock and Awe and giving yourself actions; I don't know any 100% raw methods to do that, my massacre of the gods was originally going to use Glamor Blade to do it, but that got errata'd fairly heavily. I'm now using a summoned creature in order to do it, which obviously has glaring flaws.
Massacre of the Gods is really designed simply to show off how one can get a lot of actions, and a lot of bonus damage per action, rather than be a 100% working build. But I didn't recieve much feedback on it, so I haven't really updated it.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 1:17PM
#1044
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2010
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----------------------------------------------------
Human Slayer
----------------------------------------------------
Level 1 Human Slayer
Class Features and Powers
Level 1: Heroic Slayer
Level 1: Weapon Talent
Level 1: Fighter Stances
*Unfettered Fury
Str(18) +4
Dex(17) +3
Feat: Surprising Charge
Feat: Weapon Proficiency: Gouge
Weapon: Gouge, +2 prof, 2d6, Brutal 1, Axe, Spear [DSCS]
Attack: 4(Str) + 2(prof) + 2(CA) + 1(Charge) + 1(Weapon Talent) + 1(Spear Expertise) = 11 vs AC (7+11-1)/20 = Miss(1-3) Hit(4-19) Crit(20)
Damage: 2d6b1(Gouge) + 2d6b1(Surprising Charge) + 4(Str) + 3(Heroics Slayer/Dex) + 4(Unfettered Fury) = 27
Critical: 12(Gouge) + 12(Surprising Charge) + 4(Str) + 3(Heroics Slayer/Dex) + 4(Unfettered Fury) = 35
DPR: 0.15(0) + 0.80(27) + 0.05(35) = 23.35
Assuming Charge and CA
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 1:47PM
#1045
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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How do you get +11 attack ?
-- You don't have Spear Expertise.
-- Unfettered Fury gives you a -2 to the attack roll.
On the positive side you can go Str 20, Dex 14 without losing damage, but getting a +1 to attack. Viable stances are Berserker Charge or Battle Wrath.
But let me file a new one of my own...
L1: Human, Thief
20 Dex
-- Gritty Sergeant Background: Rapier prof, +1 init
-- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Surprising Charge
-- Weapon: Rapier with +2 dmg from Weapon Finesse
Based on the very liberal assumption that there is any one ally adjacent to at least one enemy, I'm virtually guaranteed CA and being able to charge thanks to First Strike, Tactical Trick and Escape Artist's Trick. Thus while I use both elements, I can generate them myself.
In a real game you'll be most likely fine with either, and instead take Acrobat's Trick as second choice for mobility and when you have good aid from your party for charging & CA.
To-Hit: 5 dex + 3 prof + 2 CA + 1 charge + 1 exp = +12 vs AC 15 = 10% miss // 85% hit // 5% crit
Dmg: 5 dex + 2 finesse + 1 LB exp + 2d8 rapier + 2d6 SA = 8 + 9 + 7 = 24 normal // 36 crit
=> 0.85 * 24 + 0.05 * 36 = 22.2 DPR
Considering all the other damage enhancing feats, that build in fact scales quite well. At higher levels non-humans might beat it though.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 2:00PM
#1046
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2010
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How do you get +11 attack ?
-- You don't have Spear Expertise.
Missed that I removed Spear Expertise, should of course not be there.
-- Unfettered Fury gives you a -2 to the attack roll.
Unfettered Fury gives -2 to "attack rolls with weapon powers". I did not think Basic Melee Attack was a power but since you mentioned it I read the PBH closer and of course you are correct.
That drops it down to something like 17.95 dpr. Aw well.
Hope these are legit at least:
----------------------------------------------------
Human Slayer
----------------------------------------------------
Level 1 Human Slayer
Class Features and Powers
Level 1: Heroic Slayer
Level 1: Weapon Talent
Level 1: Fighter Stances
*Berserker's Charge
Str(18) +4
Dex(17) +3
Feat: Surprising Charge
Feat: Weapon Proficiency: Gouge
Weapon: Gouge, +2 prof, 2d6, Brutal 1, Axe, Spear [DSCS]
Attack: 4(Str) + 2(prof) + 2(CA) + 1(Charge) + 1(Weapon Talent) + 2(Berserker's Charge) = 12 vs AC (7+12-1)/20 = Miss(1-2) Hit(3-19) Crit(20)
Damage: 2d6b1(Gouge) + 2d6b1(Surprising Charge) + 4(Str) + 3(Heroics Slayer/Dex)= 23
Damage: 12(Gouge) + 12(Surprising Charge) + 4(Str) + 3(Heroics Slayer/Dex) = 31
DPR: 0.10*0 + 0.85*23 + 0.05*31 = 21.1
----------------------------------------------------
Human Thief
----------------------------------------------------
Dex(20) +5
Rogue's Trick: Acrobat's Trick
Background: Gritty Sergeant (Rapier)
Feat: Surprising Charge
Feat: Light Blade Expertise
Attack: 5(Dex) + 3(Prof) + 2(CA) + 1(Charge) + 1(Light Blade Expertise) = 12 vs AC (7+12-1)/20 ) = Miss(1-2) Hit(3-19) Crit(20)
Damage: 1d8(Rapier) + 1d8(Surprising Charge) + 2d6(Sneak Attack) + 5(Dex) + 2(Weapon Finesse) + 2(Acrobat's Trick) + 1(Light Blade Expertise) = 26
Crit: 8(Rapier) + 8(Surprising Charge) + 12(Sneak Attack) + 5(Dex) + 2(Weapon Finesse) + 2(Acrobat's Trick) + 1(Light Blade Expertise) = 38
DPR: 0.10*0 + 0.85*26 + 0.05*38 = 24
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 6:28PM
#1047
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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Hrhr, just realised how badly abusable the Thief is with the charging rules: L6: Human, Thief20 Dex -- Gritty Sergeant Background: Rapier prof, +1 init -- Feats: Light Blade Expertise, Surprising Charge, Backstaber, Nimble Blade, Mounted Combat -- Items: L7 Dire Boar (yes folks, you have to pay for that thing), L6 Horned Helmet, L5 Vanguard Rapier +1, GP Bracers of Mighty Striking Because my mount is my ally, I can use Tactical Trick all day and hence get my distance to charge as well as gaining CA for it. To-Hit: 3 lvl + 5 dex + 3 prof + 1 enh + 1 exp + 3 CA + 1 charge + 1 WT = +18 vs AC 20 = 5% miss // 90% hit // 5% crit Damage: 5 dex + 2 finesse + 1 exp + 1 enh + 2d8 rapier + 1d8 vanguard + 1d6 HH + 2 item + 2d8 SA [+ 1d8 crit] = 37 normal // 61.5 crit => 0.9 * 37 + 0.05 * 61.5 + 0.95 * (0.6 * 20 + 0.05 * 29) = 49.15 DPR
Easily supposed L20 DPR at L6 without any shenangians, on a perfectly playable build and completely self reliant. Let's say I'm pleased.  If I have a way to gain CA by other means (charing into a flank, target dazed, ...) this becomes even meaner. I then use Unbalancing Trick to gain the distance, and as I knock prone on my hit, my mount deals even more damage. => 0.9 * 37 + 0.05 * 61.5 + 0.95 * (0.7 * 24 + 0.05 * 34) = 54.61 DPR with CAAnd as long as my mount hits (62% without / 72% with CA like after winning init) I can charge again with an AP. => ~106 DPR on a usual AP nova round using my two Backstabs, without any support needed. Now who said Essential classes couldn't nova ?  Oh, and the guy still makes a great weapon to be wielded by a Warlord or the like... PS: Numbers look correct, Lej. You still rely on gaining CA by your allies and possibly taking OAs to get your charge, though.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 9:48PM
#1048
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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You guys continue to astound me
I'd like some way of evening the battlefield between non- CA+Ch vs you guys though
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2010 - 11:01PM
#1049
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2008
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Erm... both build generate CA and Charge themselves - reliably !
Don't know how you could make that more even...
The only thing you could do to even out stuff at L6 (and somewhat in general) is to nuke mounts. But they're RAW and as long as you pay the cost (item and feat) it's as legal as it can be...
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3 years ago ::
Oct 17, 2010 - 5:38AM
#1050
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2010
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Can you use Tactical Trick with your mount to avoid OAs? I'm not so sure.
When riding you are inside your mounts space. Tactical Trick prevent OAs when "leaving squares adjacent to your allies". Are you adjacent to your mount if you are inside it's space? Then again, the mount probably occupies more than 1 square.
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