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3 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2010 - 8:28AM
#1031
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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Just use a background to gain Rapier proficiency....
...I was completely unaware that the option existed, so thanks for that. The first background I found that gives a military weapon proficiency is Gritty Sergeant, so we'll go with that for now.
Attack: 5(Dex) + 3(Prof) + 2 (CA) + 1 (Expertise) = 11 vs Ref (9+11-1)/20 = Miss on 1
Damage: 3d8 (Rapier/Sneak Attack) + 5 (Dex) + 2(Finesse) + 1 (Expertise) = 21.5
Critical: 8 (Rapier) + 2d8 (Sneak Attack) + 5 (Dex) + 2(Finesse) + 1 (Expertise) = 24
DPR: .05(0) + .90(21.5) + .05(24) = 20.55 without a magic weapon
Wahoo, a non-longtooth, non-bugbear 1st level candidate that tops 20 DPR.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2010 - 3:29PM
#1032
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2009
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...I was completely unaware that the option existed, so thanks for that. The first background I found that gives a military weapon proficiency is Gritty Sergeant, so we'll go with that for now.
Attack: 5(Dex) + 3(Prof) + 2 (CA) + 1 (Expertise) = 11 vs Ref (9+11-1)/20 = Miss on 1
Damage: 3d8 (Rapier/Sneak Attack) + 5 (Dex) + 2(Finesse) + 1 (Expertise) = 21.5
Critical: 8 (Rapier) + 2d8 (Sneak Attack) + 5 (Dex) + 2(Finesse) + 1 (Expertise) = 32
DPR: .05(0) + .90(21.5) + .05(32) = 20.95 without a magic weapon
Sneak attack damage is maxed on a crit. Changes are in bold.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2010 - 3:36PM
#1033
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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All hail the king!
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2010 - 5:50PM
#1034
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2009
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I wanted to see how high one could get with a rogue that doesn't assume CA, but rather makes its own. I can only get up to the middle of the pack, over all, but I still thought it worth posting. Duelist Rogue @, (Gritty Sergeant background) : Level 1 Human Rogue (Brutal Scoundral) Feats: Backstabber, Deadly Draw At-Wills: Piercing strike, Duelist's flurry Background: Gritty Sergeant Strategy: Use Duelist's Flurry + Deadly Draw to gain CA Use Piercing Strike whenever CA is available Duelist's Flurrry (with dagger): Attack: +5 (Dex) +3 (Prof) +1 (Weapon Talent)=+9 vs AC of 15 ->75% hit rate Damage: 5 (Dex)+2D8 +2 (Str) (SA)=16 damage average (23 max) Total average damage: .7*(16)+.05*(23)= 12.35
Piercing Strike (with rapier) Attack: +5 (Dex) +3 (Prof) +2 (CA)=+10 vs Ref of 13 ->90% hit rate Damage: 1D8+5 (Dex)+2D8 +2 (Str) (SA)=20.5 damage average (23 max) Total average damage: .85*(20.5)+.05*(31)= 18.97500
Here's the tricky part: How often can we use piercing strike?(Ans: 3 times out of 7)) Warning: Math inside
Show
The answer is given by solving a simple Markov chain with transition matrix:
.25 1
.75 0
The columns represent whether we have CA before and after each turn. (e.g, if we don't have CA, we use Duelist's Flurry and will have CA next turn with a 75% chance. If we have CA, we use piercing strike and have a 100% chance of not having CA next turn.)
The average result is found either by solving for the eigenvector with eigenvalue 1, or more simply by multiplying the matrix by itself a bunch of times until you keep getting the same answer. That answer is
4/7 4/7
3/7 3/7
indicating that we will have CA 3 turns out of 7.
Total DPR=(4/7)*12.35+(3/7)*18.975= 15.1892857By the way, I would recommend that you add scales of war background benefits to the key, since I've known campaigns not to allow them. Edit: ... and then I saw Flash of the Blade...
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3 years ago ::
Oct 09, 2010 - 5:44AM
#1035
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2007
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Am I missing something, or does this not work owing to a rapier not being a military but a superior weapon?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 09, 2010 - 6:08AM
#1036
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Essentials made the Rapier a Military weapon.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 12, 2010 - 11:55AM
#1037
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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Could someone look at my "how to calculate DPR in my second post" and give me some feedback on some content/look and feel.
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 12, 2010 - 12:41PM
#1038
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I disagree with the assumption that if you need CA, you have it. By that coin, everyone can inflate their to-hit by 2 and just assume the same amount of party cooperation. If they don't have a perma-CA method, they shouldn't assume CA. At least chargers have the option of spamming their trick, even if it means charging another target (with Badge of the Berserker) or sucking up the occasional OA.
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3 years ago ::
Oct 12, 2010 - 12:47PM
#1039
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2008
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I disagree with the assumption that if you need CA, you have it. By that coin, everyone can inflate their to-hit by 2 and just assume the same amount of party cooperation. If they don't have a perma-CA method, they shouldn't assume CA. At least chargers have the option of spamming their trick, even if it means charging another target (with Badge of the Berserker) or sucking up the occasional OA.
Thank you. I'll try to clarify with the following statement: "If you assume Combat Advantage your DPR will be marked accordingly. It is better to generate your own combat advantage in some fashion rather than needing to rely on party cooperation which can fail. Chargers may also assume the ability to charge, but will similarly have a flag indicating that circumstances may not be conducive to achieving the quoted DPR(Must take opportunity attack to move back and charge target)"
DPR King Candidates 3.0How much damage should I shoot for?
Show
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR
Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR
Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR
Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR
It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
Show
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit
KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage
= DPR/(8*level+24)
KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
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3 years ago ::
Oct 12, 2010 - 3:26PM
#1040
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How To Calculate DPR
Show
DPR or Damage Per Round most often refers to what your expected damage is to a monster of equal level when you're using the same powers every turn when possible.
Chance To Hit
To-Hit
Add up all your attack bonuses. Combat advantage and Charging
Show
If you need combat advantage(rogues mostly) then assume it's there. If you assume Combat Advantage your DPR will be marked accordingly. It is better to generate your own combat advantage in some fashion rather than needing to rely on party cooperation which can fail. Chargers may also assume the ability to charge, but will similarly have a flag indicating that circumstances may not be conducive to achieving the quoted DPR(Must take opportunity attack to move back and charge target) Defense
Monster defenses are given by the following formulas
AC: 14 + level;
Fort,Ref,Will: 12+level
Chance to hit 1:
1 - .05(Defense - (to hit) - 1)
Chance to hit 2:
Assume I have a +7 to hit an AC of 15. I hit on an 8 but miss on a 7. 7 / 20 is my miss chance = .35. I have a hit chance of .65.
Damage
d10 -> 5.5 or 10/2+.5
d12 -> 6.5 or 12/2+.5
Brutal I typically do by brute force
2d6 brutal 1: (2+3+4+5+6)/5 = 20/5=4. 2*4 = 8 damage
High crit weapons are only accounted for in the crit section and add 1[w]/2[w]/3[w] depending on heroic/paragon/epic respectively.
DPR
(chance to hit - chance to crit) *(damage on a hit) + (chance to crit)*(damage on a crit) = DPR
Add the DPR contribution from each attack and you have your total DPR
Essentials Halfling thief 1st level
10 str
13 con
20 dex
8 int
10 wis
14 cha
trained skills: acrobatics, stealth, thievery, perception, bluff, intimidate
hp/bloodied: 25/12 hsv/spd 6/7
Primary weapon: Short Sword +3/1d6
Armor: Leather armor +2 AC
Defenses: 17 AC, 11 Fort, 17 Ref, 12 Will
feats: Light blade expertise
Rogue's tricks: Acrobat's trick, Unbalancing trick
DPR assuming 100% combat advantage and Acrobat's trick
chance to hit (+5 dex +3 Proficiency + 1 feat +2 Combat advantage = +11) .85
Damage = 3.5 (6/2+.5) + 7 (dex +2, weapon finesse) + 7 (2d6 SA) + 1 (LBE) +2 (acrobat's trick)= 20.5
Critical damage = 6 + 7 + 12 + 1 + 2 = 28
DPR = (.8 x 20.5) + (.05 x 28) = 16.4 + 1.4 = 17.8
DPR without CA = (.6 x 12.5) + (.05 + 15) = 8.25
Note this is an Essentials Heroes of the fallen lands only build, I'm sure some tricks can be used to up the numbers some, thoughts?
Any problems with my numbers?
Jonathan
edited in Without ca DPR.
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