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3 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2009 - 1:12PM
#11
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I know what he wants. He wants a ragefull but in control "typical" werewolf.
Not a twilight "I can turn into a big but normal wolf so I'll claim to be a werewolf" crap.
But a werewolf like the kind from the White Wolf games or even like the ones from the Underworld movies.
And really the Werewolf from the monster manual fills that role enough (if you forgive/ignore the "wearing armor" and "wielding clubs" crap).
The problem is that of course doesn't lend to a character that starts low level and grows in abilities and powers/skills/feats as he levels.
He just needs to change his thinking. He's used to level-less or class-less systems (marvel, Mutants and Masterminds, etc) where you can draw up a concept character that's more or less exactly what you want and improvements are minor. What he's not used to is a system where you basically need to choose a provided race/class because it's leveling system is designed into the system.
I think I can go longtooth shifter, have him be a druid, and refluff. But if he's wanting to stick with the "typical" werewolf motif, there's a lot of druid powers he'll not be able to pick from. Sure the beast bites, and beast attacks are right up the character concept alley, but not the other powers that branch into the more "druid-y" stuff. I suppose if he gets to a level where the powers don't fit his motif, he can just choose powers from other primal classes.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2009 - 1:24PM
#12
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Another option might be a gnoll, with claw fighting.
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F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.
Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.
Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.
King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong.
Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.
Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.
Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.
Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.
Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.
Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.
Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.
The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power
Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken
Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.
Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.
Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.
Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken.
Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.
Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2009 - 1:44PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2007
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Longtooth shifter, but let him take that feat from Dragon (can't remember which) that gives Tieflings a daily racial hulk-out form.
(I employ zie/zie/zir as a gender-neutral counterpart to he/him/his. Just a heads-up.)
Essentials definitely isn't for me as a player, and I feel that its design and implementation bear serious flaws which fill me with concern for the future of D&D, but I've come to the conclusion that it isn't going to destroy the game that I want to play. Indeed, I think that I could probably run a game for players using Essentials characters without it being much of a problem at all. Time will tell, I suppose.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2009 - 2:42PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jul 10, 2003
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maybe longtooth shifter wildblood warden mc druid with some custom dailies that are a bit more to his taste
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3 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2009 - 11:29AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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Krusk, do you know which dragon article you were referring to?
No idea, but a one month subscription nets you 5 downloads of the character builder (including all the info in it up until that point). Now you have to install them all on your own computer, account sharing isn't allowed, but you can say "OK I'm the DM, everyone build characters using my laptop." One month is also like 10$. I don't remember if they let you download back issues of the magazine, but I think they originally did.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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3 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2009 - 11:08PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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A more general question: does he specifically want to be a werewolf, or is he mostly just interested in being a wolf-person? The latter can be done by simply re-skinning an existing race and giving it an appropriate background, and a custom race for it is probably easier to write up than a full-on werewolf.
That said, if the player wants a full werewolf, it's still doable - the PC writeup does need to be about on par with other PCs though. I do agree that the shifter is a bad option, both for theme (bleh), and mechanics (blergh). It and a few other races still point the way to some other approaches. There are a few floating around, including a couple that I've done, but I'm currently using a much simpler one than those:
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Werewolf Racial Traits
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Wisdom
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, choice of one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance
Bloodied Regeneration: You gain regeneration 2 while bloodied. [Increase to regeneration 4 at 11th; regeneration 6 at 21st.]
Feral Predator: You gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls against bloodied targets. [Increase to +4 at 21st.]
Humanoid Form: You have the Humanoid Form power.
Immune Moon Frenzy: You are immune to Moon Frenzy and Greater Moon Frenzy.
Shapechanger: You are a medium natural humanoid with the shapechanger subtype.
--
Humanoid Form (Werewolf Racial Power)
You alter your form to resemble that of the unsuspecting prey.
At-Will * Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You alter your physical form to take on the appearance of a unique Medium humanoid. You retain your statistics in your new form, and your clothing, armor, and possessions do not change. You can end this effect as a minor action, and it ends immediately if you die.
Any creature that attempts to see through your ruse makes an Insight check opposed by your Bluff check, and you gain a +5 bonus to your check.
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Feral Deception [Heroic]
Prerequisite: Werewolf.
You gain a +2 feat bonus to Bluff checks. When you are in humanoid form and a creature attempts to see through your ruse, roll your Bluff check twice and use the higher result.
Frenzied Bite [Heroic]
Prerequisite: Werewolf.
Any target hit by your Savage Bite also takes a -2 penalty to its Will defense and ongoing 2 damage (save ends both). [Increase to ongoing 4 damage at 11th; ongoing 6 damage at 21st.]
Wolf Form [Heroic]
Prerequisite: Werewolf.
You gain the druid's Wild Shape power. Your Wild Shape form is that of a Medium gray wolf, and you gain a +2 bonus to speed in this form. You also gain the Savage Bite power.
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Savage Bite (Werewolf Racial Attack)
Your fangs sink deeply into the flesh of your prey.
At-Will * Beast Form
Standard Action
Melee touch
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength + 4 vs AC [Increase to Strength + 6 at 11th; Strength + 8 at 21st]
Hit: 1d6 + Strength modifier damage.
Level 21: 2d6 + Strength modifier damage.
Special: This power can be used as a melee basic attack. You may use this power in your hybrid form (but not in your humanoid form) even though it has the beast form keyword.
-----
Something else to keep in mind: 4E werewolves are quite different than old-E ones. Their hybrid form is their normal one, and they're a species unto themselves rather than being a condition that other races become cursed/afflicted/blessed/etc with. The player might not be aware of this difference; unlike 3E-and-earlier, he'd be 'just' a werewolf, not a human werewolf or elf werewolf or the like - his humanoid form might look like one of those but he isn't actually one of those (which mainly means that he doesn't qualify for feats, PPs, etc, that require one of those races).
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3 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2009 - 1:12AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2006
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might be a bit of a stretch, but take the Joe Talbain path and be a shifter monk, replace punch with claw and any other animal power name with wolf's 
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3 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2009 - 6:28AM
#18
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Neutronium Dragon, that write-up is perfect. I still wasn't feeling the longtooth+druid thing even though it would have worked.
I like what you did here, and I'm just going to use this.
Slight clarification though, in your writeup is his race AND class "werewolf"?
I ask in case he tries to do something crazy like multiclass (I doubt he will, but I like to be prepared).
Or is this like the "bloodline feats" introduced in Dragon Mag? And he would still need to choose a class or something.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2009 - 8:23AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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No, only it's his race, just like a human or elf. It's not a bloodline and it doesn't predetermine his class; he chooses that just like anyone else.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 16, 2009 - 10:49AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2007
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I haven't seen anyone mention it, so I will. Have him be a shifter Druid, but have him multi class Barbarian to pick up the Rage stuff that Barbarians favor. You said that your player wanted a werewolf full of rage. Just a thought.
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