|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 7:31AM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2008
|
I'm reasonably sure this works, as always, let me know if it's busted  You will need: 1 or 2 epic characters. One of which must be level 26, with the "Lord of Fate" ED. The other is an Avenger with the Ardent Champion PP. This can even be the same character, with a little multiclassing. The Lord of Fate uses her epic destiny utility, Golden Mean. While within the zone, all attacks are resolved as if that player had rolled a natural 10. The Ardent Champion PP states that you score a critical hit if you roll the same number on both die against your Oath target. So, provided you could hit on a natural 10, I believe you would score a critical hit on every attack within the zone. This effectively gives you a 100% crit rate within the zone, for 1 encounter/day (more if you can get the utility back somehow). Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 8:27AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2008
|
The main problem with this is that the zone shrinks and vanishes, however you can bypass this problem with a set of spell anchors. Normally you'd have better gloves at epic tier, but what is normally a weakness is now a strength.
Consider: Spell anchors 'sustain until end of encounter' a power. This is usually decent with zones, but it's usually NOT good with powers that do stuff when you use the sustain action. Since you're not sustaining it anymore, the on-sustain stuff doesn't happen. Similarly here, the power is 'sustained until the end of the encounter'. The zone does not shrink or vanish.
Otherwise, this appears to work, and is a hilarious 1/day thing. Good god.
Oh Content, where art thou?
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 9:26AM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2008
|
Won't work. Holy Ardor speaks of "dice rolls that come up equal", whereas Golden Mean says "don't roll but assume 10".
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 9:43AM
#4
|
|
|
Won't work. Holy Ardor speaks of "dice rolls that come up equal", whereas Golden Mean says "don't roll but assume 10".
Disagree. Golden Mean actually says "[the] rolls are resolved as if the creature rolled a 10 on the die." (Emphasis mine)
Thus, when the time comes for the Ardent Champion to roll his Oathed attack, instead of rolling he treats his rolls as if they both came up as 10s, triggering Holy Ardor.
Had Golden Mean been worded more similarly to your version, this would not work. Instead, we get this quite silly (but entertaining) trick 1/day. Can the Ardent Champion get his AB high enough to hit on-level epic creatures?
To edit your signature, click the red "Preferences" link in the top-right corner of the white space for the forums. It is directly to the left of the search bar and directly above the location bar.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 9:49AM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2008
|
It's the whole damage rolls vs. fixed damage value issue all over again. In my opinion, it is an universal rule that fixed values never trigger any events that would apply to roll.
If that rule is untrue, this is as clearly broken and a candidate for errata as the old Punisher of the Gods, so don't expect it to garner much attention.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 12:57PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Dec 22, 2006
|
Good stuff.
When I saw this one, I knew AlterFrom would show up ... and he did before I could post.
Kerrus - interesting. I was working on Mord's Lucubration for the same (item) reason: auto- Sustain.
Now that I read your wording I'm wondering ... some of the Sustain blocks have additional info in them.
If something is auto- Sustained , when does the extra stuff in the Sustain block happen ??
(a) ... all at once
(b) ... during your normal turn
(c) ... not at all
(d) ... at the start of every turn
each one of these answers has problems.
A deliberate House-rule, would be to have the Sustain happen at (b),
simply to keep arguing / book-keeping to a minimum.
You feeling me?
my kitty avatar's Royale Lineage ---> http://static.neatorama.com/images/2009-09/original-keyboard-cats.jpg
new helpful bg/mmx refugee locale ---> http://www.ruleofcool.com/smf/index.php/topic,632.0.html
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 1:16PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
|
I'm not, ADMG. I read it as triggering exactly when it says to; for example, in the case of the Lord of Fate, I read it as triggering exactly once -- you use the item to sustain it until the end of the encounter, and the zone shrinks when it is sustained.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us  .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 1:46PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
|
It's the whole damage rolls vs. fixed damage value issue all over again. In my opinion, it is an universal rule that fixed values never trigger any events that would apply to roll.
If that rule is untrue, this is as clearly broken and a candidate for errata as the old Punisher of the Gods, so don't expect it to garner much attention.
I know of no such rule. This combo seems to work by RAW.
Also, are you trying to say that a Wild Magic Sorcerer would not gain any benefit from the auto-10 roll?
What about Focused Chaos? It changes the even/oddness of a roll for you in a static manner?
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 2:12PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2008
|
Hm. You make a good case. Very well, a new item to top the list of horrendously broken things, then.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Nov 22, 2009 - 2:39PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2008
|
A new item to top the list of horrendously broken things, then.
Oh, I agree with you. I think this is cheesier than a cheesecake. I'd never run this character in a real campaign (at least, not one I didn't want to get kicked out of), and even if I wanted to, I'm pretty sure my DM sock me in the jaw just for suggesting it . Still, I think it's a good thing to point out combos like this, for several reasons:
1) Confirmation - Sometimes you read something, and you just need to find out if it's really as broken as you think it is.
2) GMs are made aware of the issue. Now that it's been brought up, GMs will be aware of the combo, and can decide in advance if they want to ban it or allow it into their game (rather than receive an unpleasant surprise).
3) Likewise, the game developers themselves can take note of the issue, and decide if they want to take steps to errata/rebalance it.
4) If the GM allows the combo, hey, the PCs get to have a bit of silly fun
Personally, part of my enjoyment of 4E is simply discovering stuff like this; the strange synergistic quirks of the game.
That said, It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, either. At least this combo has a limited duration, barring item workarounds. It only works during one encounter per day for most characters, too. Furthermore, you still need to be able to hit on a natural 10, which isn't guaranteed against high level solos and elites; you might need to crank up your attack bonus. Not as bad as pre-errata Divine Miracle, anyway .
|
|
|
