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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 6:16PM
#1
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Hey,
Our group (all newbies) have just started playing. Anyway, we are on an adventure that is recomended for levels 1-3. It is probably because of lack of tactics but we barely beat the first combat encounter and cant beat the seconds (we all are level 1). Do you suggest we just rough it out or maybe start at a higher level (2 or 3).
Thanks
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 6:29PM
#2
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Would this happen to be Keep on the Shadowfell? First encounter a bunch of kobolds on the road?
The umodified adventure can be a real newbie-grinder. I generally dislike it extremely, and think for it to be useable a GM would have to make extensive changes to suit his/her group of players and characters.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 6:33PM
#3
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What kind of characters do you guys have? Are you running Keep on the Shadowfell? (I know from when I ran that, the encounters are ungodly difficult.)
You really want to focus on your team dynamic, because even getting past the fact that you're all low levels, you don't want to rely on having much better stats than everything you're fighting. Otherwise, you're going to end up having to "free level" yourselves to fight everything.
I'd really suggest sitting down with your group before playing and discussing your characters' abilities, how you can coordinate damage, and how you can aid each other. If you all come to a consensus, you will have a useful pattern for battle. And if, during battle, you have vastly different initiative checks, you can always delay so that you all take your turns in your desired order.
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 6:44PM
#4
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Yeah you guys guessed it. It is Keep on Shadowfell. Im glad to hear that it is a tough encounter. We are just using the pregenerated characters so far.
I didnt know you can change the initiative order. That helps a ton. I think we will have a tactics meeting next time. We fell apart and got mauled (the wyrm priest killed us with his acid blasts).
Two questions...
-When a wizard is shoots flame do allies get hit if they are in range?
- If you move around an enemy (not away) are you still subject to an Opportnity Attack?
The game is great. We're just getting tired of getting whupped on..lol.
Thanks Guys,
Curt
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 7:12PM
#5
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First answer: No. All ranged attacks are considered to travel through your allies, and you have line of sight through your allies. This applies to all characters, not just wizards. I like to think of it as "Hey, get down!"
Second: Yes. If you move. You can shift one square as a move action to avoid Opportunity Attacks, but as long as you move (like, walk or run, or attempt a jump, etc.) and leave a square threatened by your enemy (a square they can attack via melee) then you provoke opportunity attacks.
I didn't know you were using the pregenerated characters. How are they handling? I looked at those and thought they were garbage, but that's just my opinion. My party uses all custom characters, even though it's our first campaign.
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 7:19PM
#6
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Thanks for your answers.
Hard to say how the pregen guys are handling. Like I said we barely beat the first encounter and are 0-3 on the second. Im not sure if it is a character weakness or we dont know how to fight as a team.
If we make our own characters does anyone have advice on an optimal party (how many melee, magic users, etc)?
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 7:27PM
#7
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Generally, the rule is to have one of each (unless you have 5 people, in which case you should consider doubling up on strikers). As for optimizing the characters themselves, you should browse through the different role categories on the main page of this forum to see if you find a build you like.
Personally, I like the rogue, because it's a really tactical class, relying on consistently getting combat advantage to deal massive damage, but if you're not doing too well, a good starter class would be something more like a fighter or cleric. My friend Pringles keeps wanting to play a wizard, but he really sucks at finding optimal spell placement (for the bursts) to avoid hitting us while hitting a bunch of enemies, so you want to make sure you can avoid that if you play a controller class.
Overall, you can do well with any party configuration, so just put a bit of variety in it and you should be fine. And when you find yourself facing off against a bunch of minions and then some strong monsters, you should ALWAYS kill the minions first. They die fast, and reduce the amount of damage you ultimately take.
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 8:19PM
#8
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Yeah you guys guessed it. It is Keep on Shadowfell. Im glad to hear that it is a tough encounter. We are just using the pregenerated characters so far.
I didnt know you can change the initiative order. That helps a ton. I think we will have a tactics meeting next time. We fell apart and got mauled (the wyrm priest killed us with his acid blasts).
Two questions...
-When a wizard is shoots flame do allies get hit if they are in range?
- If you move around an enemy (not away) are you still subject to an Opportnity Attack?
The game is great. We're just getting tired of getting whupped on..lol.
Thanks Guys,
Curt
First answer: No. All ranged attacks are considered to travel through your allies, and you have line of sight through your allies. This applies to all characters, not just wizards. I like to think of it as "Hey, get down!"
Second: Yes. If you move. You can shift one square as a move action to avoid Opportunity Attacks, but as long as you move (like, walk or run, or attempt a jump, etc.) and leave a square threatened by your enemy (a square they can attack via melee) then you provoke opportunity attacks.
I didn't know you were using the pregenerated characters. How are they handling? I looked at those and thought they were garbage, but that's just my opinion. My party uses all custom characters, even though it's our first campaign.
Worried there might be a disconnect in the communication
Are you refering to Scorching Burst which hits all creatures in an area? Than yes the target line says creatures so it does not distinguish friend from foe. Some powers will say enemy only so you do not have to worry if an ally is in the area affected by the power.
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 8:43PM
#9
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Making your own characters will help greatly. The pregenerated characters make some "interesting" choices, and just plain have several errors to their detriment, which you can check out by copying the link in my signature. Making your own characters helps because for one thing, you are more interested in them and it makes the game more fun, and also since you chose and built them, you should understand their mechanics better. Note that the starting rules and the pregen characters are both from a non-final version of the rules, as well as being intentionally somewhat "rules-lite" as an intro. SPOILERS: Which second encounter are you referring to? Actually, the first three in the original version can all kill you for whatever reason. Keep on the Shadowfell received some updates in the form of a a substantial online remake, your DM can download here: www.wizards.com/DnD/TryDnD.aspxAt the same link, you can get the Character Builder, which makes it somewhat easier to make level 1-3 characters once you figure the program's oddities out. Honestly, Keep on the Shadowfell, as a whole, is a meat grinder. Several encounters were apparently toned down in the updated version, but there's no easy "update" printout. I did not like the original version at all as a player, and I think it's a terrible introduction to D&D 4th edition due to skewed rules, excessive difficulty and almost entirely meaningless encounters, and (at least in the original version) a dearth of loot. But, some people do like it. That aside, if you view it purely as a little, "railroady" intro, "get used to the rules a bit while hanging out with your friends" sort of thing rather than "this is exactly how D&D 4e is," you might have a better time.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
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4 months ago ::
Nov 19, 2009 - 9:22PM
#10
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Another important factor is how many players are there? If there are less than 5 then the encounters will be overly hard as the adventure is designed for 5 people. Have your DM do some searching on these forums for ways to reduce encounters to balance them for less-than 5 people. I personally use one simple rule with published adventures. Take the XP per encounter, divide it by 5 (the number of players the game assumes are in your game) and multiply that by how many players you actually have. Then build the encounter to reward 'roughly' the final number. It's a quick and easy way to try and re-balance an encounter on the fly (usually just removing one or two monsters or reducing the number of a certain monster group,) without much work and to help balance the published adventures.
Also I agree with some above, the characters that come with that adventure are not very well made. Grab the Character Builder and build yourself a character. For a group of 4-6 players you should have at least one person for each 'role' in the game. Note that the Character Builder is free for making 1st lvl characters but if you want to go higher you need to get a subscription to DDI. Some groups share a single subscription and everyone chips in for it, but its up to you. There are some very handy tools for DMs on there not to mention the magazine content.
Also have your DM download the starter set on the website. It includes a digital version of Keep on the Shadow Fell that has been updated with changes, balances, fixes and such. So your DM can make sure he or she is on top of things when you play. Mind it is still quite a challenging adventure, so good luck!
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