So I've been running a campaign for a few weeks for my girlfriend and a couple friends. My campaigns are typically lighthearted, but I do like to include some reality checks here and there, demonstrating the real existence of evil and tragedy in my campaign world. My girlfriend is rather the sensitive type, but she's playing a Chaotic Neutral character (probably emulating my previous characters).
A recent example of what made this kind of a problem is that I had sent the party on a fairly simple mission; to rid the nearby forest of a tribe of gnolls. I had informed the PCs that they had been kidnapping children from the local farming families. So my players run in, guns a blazing, and start torching the entire village to the ground. I also like to remind my players the world does not exist in black and white. They encountered whimpering gnoll pups hiding behind an overturned table in one of the gnoll huts, whom they spared. The PC's kill the gnoll champion, the fighters, and the noncombatants fled. They let the huts burn, and then decide to loot. They, unfortunately, find the burned corpses of the children the gnolls had captured. I had predetermined that the children were alive, and being kept as slaves. Unfortunately, my PC's had thought the children were all being eaten.
My girlfriend became very upset by this. She later told me it made it hard to play a CN alignment with such realities weighing heavily on her OOC conscious. My question becomes this... Was it the right choice, from a DM standpoint, making an emotionally impacting story point? Or did I cross the line by making my girlfriend feel uncomfortable with her character's actions? Also, what are some ways I can continue to show the harsh realities of life (infrequently), without it being too much?
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!"
Wait, so the players managed to spare the gnoll pups while accidentally burning to death the kidnapped children? Kinda amusing, in a twisted way.
More seriously, I'm not sure I see the conflict your player sees. Even chaotic neutral characters are allowed to have a concious, after all. If they didn't, they'd be chaotic evil.
Edit: On another note, I have to say I'm disappointed in your players. Everyone knows it's pillage then raze, not the other way around.
EscherEnigma: Rude, Crude, and Socially Unacceptable. Arrogant, pretentious, and elitist. "Biased and delusional" - Awesome_Dude <--Recent Art
I agree that it's quite amusing, in a dark way. If it had not included my girlfriend, the PC's would likely be sheepishly joking with one another about the blunder they made. I'd also agree that her CN character is okay to have a conscious, but she's trying to avoid playing the "good hero" archetype. You're totally in the right for reminding us about that though, thanks.
Regarding the razing of the villiage, it was actually quite tactically sound, I gave the gnolls morale penalties, and it ended up killing a few who couldn't get armed and outside before the hut collapsed on them.
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!"
It's prefectly reasonable for a CN or even chaotic evil character to feel bad about buring children alive (CE would prefer them as slaves, or for ransom). I think you played it pretty well.
Also remind her that no animals where hurt during the show. It's imagination.
Dead babies might be a bit much, especially for what's supposed to be a light-hearted campaign. If your GF, as a player in your group, is a bit uncomfortable with it, you should tone it down a bit - in fact, subtlety is often better for getting a point across or building a particular atmosphere. A constant, subtle reinforcement of the fact that actions have consequences (with occasional not-as-subtle bits here and there) may well have more long-term impact on the party than them playing with fire and then realizing they've accidentally ordered the Krispycritter Kiddie Meals... Particularly since you mentioned that if your GF hadn't been with the party most of them would have gone, "Um..Oopsy." and chuckled sheepishly about it before moving on.
As far as any alignment issue, remind your girlfriend that, as a CN character, she can pretty much wear whichever hat, black or white, that she feels like at that particular moment. A CN character can be as heroic as the shiniest knight if it suits their personality - it's just that "Because it's The Right Thing To DoTM" probably won't be their primary reason for acting that way. CN characters play by their own sets of rules, just as strict as any others. The difference is simply that their rules are based upon personal philosophy and conscience (or lack thereof), rather than on the morality or laws of other people, religions, or societies. I've always found that if a CN character is going to do anything truly good or truly evil, it's because they generally have a particular reason for it that makes sense to them as an individual.
One of my favorite CN characters from my 3.5 days actually adventures with a mostly Lawful Good party simply as a lark. Personality-wise, he's sort of a Hannibal Lecter rip-off who mostly plays hero because it amuses him to do so. He loves games, and finds it more challenging to play the good guy than to simply take the most expedient option all the time. He also gets a big kick out of pointing out when the LG guys are verging into Lawful Stupid - as an "impartial observer" of their LG ways, he's decided to appoint himself as the party's moral compass and "help" them to reach spiritual enlightenment, mainly by playing mind games and twisting their heads around until they're going the right way, lol. It's important to note, however, that even though the character appears to ignore most of the conventional ideas of honor and conscience, in many ways he's more honorable and conscienscious than the rest of the party since he holds himself so ruthlessly accountable to his own set of very high standards. He may be ruthless, but isn't heartless - if he discovered he'd accidentally burned down a shack full of innocent children, he'd be beating himself up over it for months. And would probably vent his frustrations by hacking the corpses of the gnolls into little bits, tearing down any remaining huts, and marching off to slaughter any other nearby tribes of kiddie-napping gnolls. And then give all their gold to an orphanage. I personally felt that the best part of playing that character was the chance to delve into the paradox of one character having both powerful good and powerful evil impulses within him, and the struggle to balance the two.
Was it the right choice, from a DM standpoint, making an emotionally impacting story point? Or did I cross the line by making my girlfriend feel uncomfortable with her character's actions? Also, what are some ways I can continue to show the harsh realities of life (infrequently), without it being too much?
Having heroes accidentally murder innocents is pretty heavy stuff. Clearly your girlfriend was fine with the notion of child-death as as a world element (judging by the consumption assumption), but it's the fact that they were responsible for sending the tots off to kindlegarten that seems to have made it especially difficult for her. I had a similar reaction during the Wrath of the Lich King beta when a quest had me kill an NPC who turned out to be an 'ordinary hero' trying to take the enemy down from within. It was a highly demoralizing turn of events and soured me on any further quests. Personally, when the players set fire to buildings containing the children they'd come to save, I'd relocate the kids to a crude root cellar, burrow, or holding den beneath one of the huts. Have the kids found, scorched and unconscious from smoke inhalation, but still alive. It'd teach the party to be careful with matches without more sensitive players having to see any babycue. In general, you're walking the line between the story you want to tell and the story the players want to hear. Clearly this one, at least, does not want so gritty and dark a world as you do. Personally, I prefer to fit my story/style to the preferences of the players: audiences are there to have fun, not to endure something they don't like.
On a separate note, I'm not sure I see why this post is in Astrid's instead of What's A DM To Do?. Sure, your girlfriend presumably has girl parts, but as long as she isn't losing her dice in them I don't see what it has to do with your game or the dilemma in question.
(I employ zie/zie/zir as a gender-neutral counterpart to he/him/his. Just a heads-up.)
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I figured I'd post it here for the feminine perspective on the issue. This seemed like a good place to get it.
In retrospect, keeping the children alive, with minor injuries would likely have been a better choice. I guess it's a mistake made, and my DMing should grow from it. Thanks very much for everyone's opinions on the issues.
Hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon. The little dog laughed to see such sport, And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. He ran from conviction, and fed his addiction as the Dish heated the Spoon... The Spoon begged to go, but the Dish shouted : "NO!!" "The heroin will be ready soon!"
I figured I'd post it here for the feminine perspective on the issue. This seemed like a good place to get it.
In retrospect, keeping the children alive, with minor injuries would likely have been a better choice. I guess it's a mistake made, and my DMing should grow from it. Thanks very much for everyone's opinions on the issues.
What you probably should of done, is had them start crying, and allowed a heroic rescue. But hindsight is better the foresight.
the children died. Its sad, but it was a result of the adventurers not thinking. The children died & that makes a great motivation for the adventurers to be more careful next time. Without the lows, the heroes would only have highs. Its easy to be righeteous when its impossible not to be. A little emotional kick to the teeth can be good for the soul. It makes the adventure more realistic & it spurs the players into a position where they think bafore they act.
-M
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. -Albert Einstein
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