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Thanks for the guide.  It was a very good read.

I am looking at playing a Shaman but am very new to 4E.  I have not played since 2E on an regular basis.  I have played a bit for 4E, as a warlock though.

Is the Shaman class still a viable class as a leader or have the changes made the Cleric and Warlord much better leader classes.  It seems like this thread died off after the change a few months back.  I have read where the only two leader classes really worth playing are the Cleric and Warlord.

I still have a few weeks to determine what I am going to do.  I was looking at a Con/Wis Protector Shaman with 18 starting in the primaries.  I do not think I want to MC so the new change might not help me. 

It seems like the Shaman not having range for most of their skill beyond adjacent and the AC issue make them less useful than some other leader types. 

Are there any new thoughts on Shamans and is the guide up to date? 

Jul 1, 2011 -- 5:41AM, czman wrote:

Thanks for the guide.  It was a very good read.

I am looking at playing a Shaman but am very new to 4E.  I have not played since 2E on an regular basis.  I have played a bit for 4E, as a warlock though.

Is the Shaman class still a viable class as a leader or have the changes made the Cleric and Warlord much better leader classes.  It seems like this thread died off after the change a few months back.  I have read where the only two leader classes really worth playing are the Cleric and Warlord.

I still have a few weeks to determine what I am going to do.  I was looking at a Con/Wis Protector Shaman with 18 starting in the primaries.  I do not think I want to MC so the new change might not help me. 

It seems like the Shaman not having range for most of their skill beyond adjacent and the AC issue make them less useful than some other leader types. 

Are there any new thoughts on Shamans and is the guide up to date? 

The guide is rather up to date, so no worries there.

Also, a much and much better question is: what kind of character do you want? Why are you looking at playing a Shaman in the first place? You sound like you have a cool character concept ready or at least like the story and fluff surrounding the Shaman, which are the most important reasons to choose a class.
The Cleric and Warlord have the most support behind them, which makes them extremely good at being Leaders. However, Shamans are an extremely fun and still effective Leader class. Most importantly, they can summon spirits! The average party will like you either way.

It sounds more like you're asking: "Will the other players hate me for choosing Shaman as a leader instead of the more awesome Warlord or Cleric?"
Short answer: NO!

Long answer: If you know you're going to play with a bunch of optimizers that care for nothing other than to finish combats in the first two rounds without becoming bloodied, then maybe. However, if you play with the normal, average party which likes effective characters, but wants them to be interesting as well, then NO!

There hasn't been anything to add in the past few months except the possible AC fix by cleric multiclassing.

The problems with con shamans is that you need a 13 strength, which you can get with a con/wis race if you want starting 18s.  Range isn't a real issue in actual play in my experience.  Sometimes you have to make tough choices, but I have played a stalker shaman for a long campaign and a worldspeaker for a one shot and I never had any real trouble with being able to target enemies while still buffing/enabling/healing who I wanted to.

Shaman is still considered one of the better leaders by most of charop since charop values enabling a lot.  It can't off turn enable (grant allies extra moves and attacks) like the warlord, but int shamans have better at will enabling now than warlords and shamans have decent enabling overall.  The main thing holding the shaman back is that it is a tricky class to play with a bunch of wierd rules.

The cleric is a whole different type of leader and is now for those who want a leader who can stand on the front lines and off defend, but who care more about healing and buffing than enabling.  And I think bards are also right up there as one of the best leaders, with ardents and runepriests being decent with their main problem being lack of support.  Sentinal is the one leader with real issues, but that is more because it is a jack of all trades build than a true leader build.  Leaders are the role that 4E has the done the best job with overall at this point.

I just did a lot to clean up the sample build section, the paragon path section, and the epic destiny section.  I deleted a lot of the lower ranked non shaman ones for the paragon path and epic destiny sections that were cluttering it up some.

I moved hybird builds to the post below and deleted my basic sample builds since they were so out of date to be not useful anymore.  I will add new updated ones in the next few weeks.

I thought I read somewhere that there was a feat that allows a character to use their CON for their AC instead of DEX.  Can anyone clarify this actually does exist?

There used to be hide armor expertise, but they errated it because it was overpowered for barbarians.  They have yet to directly fix the AC issue for con shamans and swarm druids.

Yeah, the tool most used in dealing with the ACs of con shamen and swarm druids is a spatula.

Since when do Shamans have an 'AC issue' at all? If you play an AC-deficient Shaman, shouldn't you alter your tactics?

Tactics will only help so much when your most common defense can be hit on a 3, especially when mm3 damage expressions make it near impossible for a hit to not dismiss your spirit companion and deal damage to you 20 squares away.

Jul 1, 2011 -- 2:18PM, SpacyRicochet wrote:

Since when do Shamans have an 'AC issue' at all? If you play an AC-deficient Shaman, shouldn't you alter your tactics?

You mean the tactic of trying to avoid all the monsters that will look at your soft, unarmoured hide and decide that you seem like a free lunch? Wizards try to do that too, and all too often they're unsuccessful. And unlike con-shamans, they actually have a reasonable starting AC. 

Jul 1, 2011 -- 2:51PM, PaladinOnline wrote:

Jul 1, 2011 -- 2:18PM, SpacyRicochet wrote:

Since when do Shamans have an 'AC issue' at all? If you play an AC-deficient Shaman, shouldn't you alter your tactics?

You mean the tactic of trying to avoid all the monsters that will look at your soft, unarmoured hide and decide that you seem like a free lunch? Wizards try to do that too, and all too often they're unsuccessful. And unlike con-shamans, they actually have a reasonable starting AC. 

Wizards generally have reasonable AC, if they take leather armor, or the feat with +2 AC while unarmed and it scales with level, because they must incrase their INT. For con shamans this does not work, because they neither increase DEX nor INT, when leveling. Also, wizards have lots of utility powers, that increase AC for a turn, or to automatically turn a hit into a miss.

Jul 1, 2011 -- 2:18PM, SpacyRicochet wrote:

Since when do Shamans have an 'AC issue' at all? If you play an AC-deficient Shaman, shouldn't you alter your tactics?

I guess I have a few questions for you:

1) do you play a shaman?
2) what was your starting level?
3) what was the ending level or current level?
4) what is your AC?
5) what type of shaman are you using?
6) Would you be willing to post the basics of your build (AC related)?

Sometimes people see things differently because their framework is not the same.  It seems like Shamans can, if they choose to, start out with decent AC but have little to no way to keep up as they level.  I may be completely off because I have not started one yet.  Additionally, the HP buffer they get will become less and less effective very quickly.

In reality I understand why they have not increased Shaman AC.  If a Shaman's AC gets to high they could basically act as two defenders and one Leader.  The Shaman and SC could both "tank" and the Shaman could still be a leader.  Shamans would be able to move around the battle field pinning low HP enemies with AO or flanking enemies and the SC could do what they already do.

It seems like having SC selection affect damage and AC would be a simple solution.  There is no real reason why the SC has to have the same AC or nearly the same AC as the Shaman.  It could easily be reworked where the SC can get a bonus to AC and negative to damage or vice versa.  This would allow greater differences in play style and a more unique class.

I might be somewhat biased myself as well, since I play a stalker shaman. That nets me an extra 3 AC. Anyway, as for the questions:

1) Yes.
2) 1.
3) Currently at 10.
4) 23 AC, 20 Fort, 22 Reflex, 24 Will.
5) Stalker Shaman (int-secondary, Razorclaw shifter, currently at 18 Int and 20 Wis), LFR-based.
6) I wear Leather Armor (currently +2 enchantment) and took Improved Defenses and the Resilient Spirit feat for extra spirit defenses.

I have scaling AC defenses (in the form of pumping Int), which does work for my bias. However, I'm mostly basing my "Do Shamans have an AC issue?"-point on the fact that I rarely find my shaman to be attacked, if I deploy my SC properly. Across a great variety of DMs, enemies usually tire quickly of attacking the SC (can't get past the hit point barrier) and start munching on other characters. If they do get past the barrier, yay. I probably soaked a lot of damage away from the other characters. Even when I do find the shaman himself to be attacked, my companions usually arrive to help me and get me back from unconsciousness (they better).
If you add to that that Con-shamans have increased hit points and healing surges, plus the availability of items that perhaps do not help their squishyness directly, but do aid against being attacked; I suspect shamans do not have that much of an issue. Just a different set of tactics that have to be played.

The lack of defence more or less negates the hp absorption of attacking the companion for mid to late game non-Int shamen who haven't nerfed their secondary stat to qualify for heavy armor.  The enemy loses excess damage on a hit, but compensates for that loss with increased accuracy, balancing out the average damage.  A good defender and a good controller can mitigate this significantly, but even the best defenders and controllers can't keep all the enemies wrapped up all the time.  Because attacking the SC is no longer a serious reduction in average damage, powers that last 'until your SC is banished' are dramatically less useful.

And it doesn't even consider the standard threats to backline characters - enemies with the range or mobility to get right to you - whether it's packs of minions with crossbows, devils happily teleporting out of your knight's defender aura to attack you with no penalty what-so-ever, the dragon who stuns your melee friends with a roar before winging it over to lay the smack down with a multi-attack action point, burrowing or incorporeal enemies popping up from the ground or bursting through walls...

In short, you'll find that being 20 squares away from any ally who could come to your aid will eventually be a liability, rather then a strength, one that is only compounded by an AC that standard enemies can hit on a 3, let alone elites, solos, or up-level enemies in 'hard' encounters.

Jul 2, 2011 -- 2:58AM, SpacyRicochet wrote:

I might be somewhat biased myself as well, since I play a stalker shaman. That nets me an extra 3 AC. Anyway, as for the questions:

1) Yes.
2) 1.
3) Currently at 10.
4) 23 AC, 20 Fort, 22 Reflex, 24 Will.
5) Stalker Shaman (int-secondary, Razorclaw shifter, currently at 18 Int and 20 Wis), LFR-based.
6) I wear Leather Armor (currently +2 enchantment) and took Improved Defenses and the Resilient Spirit feat for extra spirit defenses.

I have scaling AC defenses (in the form of pumping Int), which does work for my bias. However, I'm mostly basing my "Do Shamans have an AC issue?"-point on the fact that I rarely find my shaman to be attacked, if I deploy my SC properly. Across a great variety of DMs, enemies usually tire quickly of attacking the SC (can't get past the hit point barrier) and start munching on other characters. If they do get past the barrier, yay. I probably soaked a lot of damage away from the other characters. Even when I do find the shaman himself to be attacked, my companions usually arrive to help me and get me back from unconsciousness (they better).
If you add to that that Con-shamans have increased hit points and healing surges, plus the availability of items that perhaps do not help their squishyness directly, but do aid against being attacked; I suspect shamans do not have that much of an issue. Just a different set of tactics that have to be played.

We were specifically talking about CON-Shamans and their AC.  I am not sure how the information you provided deals with the actual issue at hand.  CON Shaman having increased hit points and surges are the same as AC.  They may equal survivability to some extent (the point of AC) but they are not the same.  I suspect that you are confusing a protector's play style with a stalker's play style.  They cannot use the same tactics because they are different.

With the online character builder, how do you change out Healer's Lore for Battle Cleric's Lore when selecting the Cleric multi-class?

Jul 2, 2011 -- 4:02PM, RQuinton wrote:

With the online character builder, how do you change out Healer's Lore for Battle Cleric's Lore when selecting the Cleric multi-class?

You don't, it's probably still too early for that yet.

Jul 2, 2011 -- 11:54AM, czman wrote:

We were specifically talking about CON-Shamans and their AC.  I am not sure how the information you provided deals with the actual issue at hand.  CON Shaman having increased hit points and surges are the same as AC.  They may equal survivability to some extent (the point of AC) but they are not the same.  I suspect that you are confusing a protector's play style with a stalker's play style.  They cannot use the same tactics because they are different.

What is the most significant tactics change of a Protector shaman versus a Stalker shaman? My assumption was that the protector build keeps his SC even more centered around allies, as opposed to the stalker build, which wants to hug and munch on enemies, which should make it more of a threat to the eyes of enemies. This assumption would make the 'not getting attacked-information' even more valid. But my tactics view might be wrong.

Jul 2, 2011 -- 11:54AM, czman wrote:

We were specifically talking about CON-Shamans and their AC.  I am not sure how the information you provided deals with the actual issue at hand.  CON Shaman having increased hit points and surges are the same as AC.  They may equal survivability to some extent (the point of AC) but they are not the same.  I suspect that you are confusing a protector's play style with a stalker's play style.  They cannot use the same tactics because they are different.

hat is the most significant tactics change of a Protector shaman versus a Stalker shaman? My assumption was that the protector build keeps his SC even more centered around allies, as opposed to the stalker build, which wants to hug and munch on enemies, which should make it more of a threat to the eyes of enemies. This assumption would make the 'not getting attacked-information' even more valid. But my tactics view might be wrong.

You're tactic analysis is correct. I think the guide from gelatinous also mentions something like that. But even though the protector's spirit likes to be around allies, it should also be positioned in a way, that it draws attacks from enemies. So CON shamans also need high AC.

On another note, i was playing an animist shaman last sunday and must say, that it's helpful being able to summon the SC as free action during a surprise round. Granting THP with "spirit of vigor" makes more than up for the animists lower healing capabilites, compared to bear shamans.

Jul 4, 2011 -- 2:22AM, crayne wrote:

You're tactic analysis is correct. I think the guide from gelatinous also mentions something like that. But even though the protector's spirit likes to be around allies, it should also be positioned in a way, that it draws attacks from enemies. So CON shamans also need high AC.

Perhaps this is the core of the AC-issue, that there is an assumption that spirits should draw attacks from enemies. I agree wholeheartedly that any attack is preferable on an SC instead of an actual character, but if you factor in that Protector shamans might be better off not drawing attacks at all, the AC-issue becomes quite smaller.

Jul 4, 2011 -- 2:22AM, crayne wrote:

On another note, i was playing an animist shaman last sunday and must say, that it's helpful being able to summon the SC as free action during a surprise round. Granting THP with "spirit of vigor" makes more than up for the animists lower healing capabilites, compared to bear shamans.

Spirit of Vigor Strengthening Spirit is awesome (and has nothing to do with the previous comment). I use it to boost my Stalkers healing. Especially during the big boss fights now that I can have two of my lovely SCs running around.

Jul 4, 2011 -- 2:42AM, SpacyRicochet wrote:

Jul 4, 2011 -- 2:22AM, crayne wrote:

You're tactic analysis is correct. I think the guide from gelatinous also mentions something like that. But even though the protector's spirit likes to be around allies, it should also be positioned in a way, that it draws attacks from enemies. So CON shamans also need high AC.

Perhaps this is the core of the AC-issue, that there is an assumption that spirits should draw attacks from enemies. I agree wholeheartedly that any attack is preferable on an SC instead of an actual character, but if you factor in that Protector shamans might be better off not drawing attacks at all, the AC-issue becomes quite smaller.

Jul 4, 2011 -- 2:22AM, crayne wrote:

On another note, i was playing an animist shaman last sunday and must say, that it's helpful being able to summon the SC as free action during a surprise round. Granting THP with "spirit of vigor" makes more than up for the animists lower healing capabilites, compared to bear shamans.

Spirit of Vigor is awesome. I use it to boost my Stalkers healing as well. Especially during the big boss fights now that I can have two of my lovely SCs running around.

If you didn't know, "spirit of vigor" is animist only (it requires elemental spirit classfeature, so hybrid shamans can take the feat, without hybrid talent). So a stalker shaman cannot take it.

Corrected it. I confused it with the temp-granting Strenghtening Spirit. Which is also awesome.

Hey all, I'm currently working on my first Shaman for an ongoing campaign.  A couple of things to keep in mind: there are three of us playing, and we're taking turns rotating DMing duties.  Because there's usually only 2 players at a time, each of us controls two characters, and each person can rotate out their own characters (we're all in a mercenary guild).  So basically the party won't necessarily be stable.  My other character is a mage (Enchanter/Evoker), which isn't designed specifically to synergize with the Shaman (though if multiple enemies are bloodied and I can catch them in an AoE, the Stalker Spirit Boon is going to be quite nice, especially since there's also going to be a Sorc in the party sometimes). 

So here's the build I've come up with:

Berylis Lindelenon and Legadema
Spoiler: Show

Now, I'm not going for 100% most optimized character ever, but I'd like to be effective while staying true to the concept (i.e. I'm not going to change race, for example; besides I'm a huge fan of Elven Accuracy, and having speed 7 with the SC might be fun).  My goal is to very much emphasize the striker secondary role, including supporting the strikers through buffs and granted attacks.  I'm not sure which strikers will be in the party at any given time (all I know is that one player has a Wild Magic Sorcerer, so I'll sometimes be paired up with him), but at the very least my Mage will benefit from his many buffs (Spirit of the Slavering Bloodlust, Spirit Boon, CA from Twin Panthers and Claws of the Eagle, etc.).  He'll certainly increase party DPR, and hopefully I'll get a striker with a good MBA like a Brutal Rogue or Barbarian to use with CotE. 

So his primary focus is offense, but that said he's still the primary healer.  Swift Recovery helps by granting another per encounter heal, even if it does require me to be in melee range.  I'm also considering the Divine Channeler feat to pick up Healer's Mercy as a Daily (weakened won't be an issue if I simply use CotE afterwards), but I'm not sure if it's worth giving up Implement Focus for.  After all, since I'm not necessarily sure what the party composition will be personal damage might be important.  I'm also tossing around the idea of picking up Vigorous Spirit (or Strengthening Spirit) to improve the efficiency of the heals that I already have.  I'd love to have that big, daily nova heal in my back pocket, but then again there's also the issue of "emergency" buttons that only come into play every so often being wasted resources most of the time.  Trying to find that balance between offense and defense (healing) is tougher than I thought it would be.  Thoughts?

I'd also like to hear some opinions on the Totemic Warclub, because it seems like it's pretty much under the radar for the most part.  Does the Totemic Spear offer that much more of a tactical advantage?  What I like about the Totemic Warclub is that it allows me to get into flanking position so that I can use melee spirit powers while both benefitting from and granting CA.  It also gives me more flexibility in general, allowing me to use a melee spirit power without moving my SC from an advantageous position, which will hopefully reduce how much my allies will have to alter their tactics to benefit from the SC's buffs.  Maybe I'm overestimating how much of an advantage that'll be, though.

If anyone else has any other tips or tactical advice, that would be very much appreciated as well.  With such a complicated class I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that becomes obvious only after seeing it in play.

Edit:  Another thing I'm wondering is what my best choice of level 5 Daily is.  Specifically, I might switch War Chieftain's Blessing out for Spirit of the Healing Flood.  WCB certainly emphasizes my goal of offensive buffing, but +2 to hit vs just one enemy seems like it might be situationally useful (not worth a Daily usage unless there's a nasty Elite or Solo pretty much every adventuring day).  SotHF, OTOH, offers a smattering of surge free healing that would always be welcome, and attacking each enemy in a close burst 5 seems pretty universally handy (especially given my emphasis on personal offense). 

Now that the cleric's "battle cleric lore" is official, i think it deserves a mention several sections (initial AC issues, MC and hybrid sections) because it pretty much solves the shaman's AC problem (no matter if you're hybrid or MC cleric).

Its mentioned in the multiclass section and I might mention it in a few other places.  But I think a strict reading of the multiclass rules means it does not work.  Multiclassing does not make you a member of the class for purposes of class features, only for feats, paragon paths, and epic destinies.  I know there is no where near universal agreement on this.

Hybridding for BCL does work RAW.  For now.

I haven't read through the whole thread.  Is there any discussion of the change in NPC damage expressions and what that means for your spirit companion?  I've only glanced over the damage tables a little bit, but it seems like we've gone from an old normal, high damage average of 10+half level (i.e. roughly the same as the SC's survivability, so a little more than 50-50 chance of getting killed)... to the new single-target damage expression of roughly level + 8.

In other words, by about level 7, your SC's at a disadvantage.  By mid-paragon, he's probably toast, and by level 30, he literally can't survive a hit from a single-attack power with a standard damage expression. 

Has there been any word on addressing this from WotC?  Any items that come in handy or anything?  It seems like an issue that might deserve a little mention in the guide, whether or not anything's been done about it on the WotC end. 

Aug 20, 2011 -- 8:04PM, LlamasNotsheep wrote:

I haven't read through the whole thread.  Is there any discussion of the change in NPC damage expressions and what that means for your spirit companion?  I've only glanced over the damage tables a little bit, but it seems like we've gone from an old normal, high damage average of 10+half level (i.e. roughly the same as the SC's survivability, so a little more than 50-50 chance of getting killed)... to the new single-target damage expression of roughly level + 8.

In other words, by about level 7, your SC's at a disadvantage.  By mid-paragon, he's probably toast, and by level 30, he literally can't survive a hit from a single-attack power with a standard damage expression. 

Has there been any word on addressing this from WotC?  Any items that come in handy or anything?  It seems like an issue that might deserve a little mention in the guide, whether or not anything's been done about it on the WotC end. 

I think this has been a side note in the discussions from a few pages ago, where the AC problems of the shaman came up again. But as you said, this has not been adressed by WOTC in any way, yet.

I are not sure if this is an unintended consequence of the damage change or done on purpose.  There are not any items that i am aware of, but are a few feats and paragon paths that help. 

Retributive spirit makes the enemy take -2 to their defenses if they destroy the spirit.  Stormcaller is such a good paragon path for people with DMs that attack the spirit because it damages enemies for attacking the spirit and does extra damage and dazes when they destroy it.

The other issue is that if the enemy is attacking the spirit they are still wasting an action most of the time even if they destroy it each time.  They are not attacking anyone else because the spirit can't be a target of an AoE.  And they are not attacking you.  So if they do destroy it, you are taking less damage than if they had attacked you and they are doing less damage to you than they would to an ally.

And a lot of this comes down to your DM.  Most DMs I have played with rarely attacked the spirit because they know I will resummon it next turn anyway and they are willing to risk the opportunity action attack if they need to get away to attack one of my allies.

Aug 22, 2011 -- 7:27AM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

And a lot of this comes down to your DM.  Most DMs I have played with rarely attacked the spirit because they know I will resummon it next turn anyway and they are willing to risk the opportunity action attack if they need to get away to attack one of my allies.

Build plays a role, too.  Worldspeaker SCs can be pretty darn sticky, and if an enemy doesn't have a viable ranged attack to use then its only options may be to do nothing or attack the SC.

I've only played a low level worldspeaker for a one shot, but stopping a Brute from moving away with bramble ally after an ally had pushed it away from the rest of the party was a fun outcome in one round.

An interesting build would be one that goes stormcaller for its paragon path with intolerable command and spirit's rebuke.    If it tries to get away from the SC it is stopped and slowed if hit by worldspeaker's command.  If it attacks and destroys the spirit instead it is dazed and slowed. 

That would work well with a forced movement defender or controller in the party.  That would also be a good use of primal gust to make sure a melee focused enemy is at least 3 squares away from any allies and then summon the SC next to it,

Aug 22, 2011 -- 9:40AM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

I've only played a low level worldspeaker for a one shot, but stopping a Brute from moving away with bramble ally after an ally had pushed it away from the rest of the party was a fun outcome in one round.

An interesting build would be one that goes stormcaller for its paragon path with intolerable command and spirit's rebuke.    If it tries to get away from the SC it is stopped and slowed if hit by worldspeaker's command.  If it attacks and destroys the spirit instead it is dazed and slowed. 

That would work well with a forced movement defender or controller in the party.  That would also be a good use of primal gust to make sure a melee focused enemy is at least 3 squares away from any allies and then summon the SC next to it,

Now that sounds like a fun build! 

I too have only played a low level Worldspeaker, and very briefly at that, but I was very impressed at the amount of control it could put out.  IMO it rivals the Bard as being the best leader/controller, even if the two go about their controller secondary roles in different ways. 

I think I will build that one for this guide.  Edit: Here it is.

I think worldspeaker is probably my favorite shaman build now, mainly because I like playing control heavy characters.

Edit: I forgot to mention phrenic master as a paragon path that also dazes enemies that destroy the companion.  Its a better path than stormcaller overall, altough stormcaller damages them for even attacking the spirit and is a good path.

Hey Guys, 

This is a great artical, but can anyone tell me what PLES beside the improved defense feat is?


Thanks. 

It was players essentials.  I need to redo those with HOFL for heroes of the fallen lands.

So, random question. Any suggestions for good non-shaman at-wills to take as a half-elf dilettante power?

More specifically:
I'm building a half-elf bear shaman for a campaign I'm joining. Joining at level 8, so Versatile Master isn't that far off.
I'm curious about suggestions for dilettante powers in general, but for this character specifically, note that the campaign has no Divine power source (it's based on Eberron, but there's been a zombie apocalypse and divine power has shut off). Other than that, more or less anything goes.

Also, for a half-elf shaman, would Dilettante be more useful or would Knack for Success be better? Knack is very versatile, of course, and seems pretty leader-y but can also help yourself. The bonuses are decent but not huge, but the fact that it allows you to grant yourself a save (or an ally, though that's less of a problem nowadays) makes it really tempting.

With no Divine source, I'm not coming up with any at-wills that would be good for improving your abilities as a Leader.  Grasping Tide is a possible choice if you want to improve your control, and Fire Hawk is a great control/striker at-will.

I'd probably take Knack for Success unless I was really trying to push control.

t~

Direct the strike works. Its not as good as claws of the eagle, but that lets you take a different shaman at will instead. Thorn strike is ok.

If you are willing to take adept dilletante that opens up powers like hypnotism and staggering note.  With thunderwave, that gives you an at will close blast 3 that pushes 8 or so at level 16.

Also storm pillar gives you a little more control when used with your spirit.

If you're in zombie-apocolypse territory, then a radiant at-will could come in handy. Without Divine, that limits you to Blazing Starfall and Dire Radiance (the latter will probably line up with your stats better).

Hmm. Direct the Strike to free up another Shaman at-will is definitely an interesting idea.

The DM okay-ed the Divine Healer-Battle Cleric's Armaments combo (since it involves being a cleric but not actually using any divine powers!), so my AC problems are solved, but that takes up the MC feat so Adept Dilettante is unfortunately out. Otherwise, Thunderwave push 6-8? Yes please!

I know Grasping Tide is just damn good in general, and it's definitely an option. I'm wondering about specific synergies with non-shaman at-wills though. Fire Hawk is interesting and I'm not sure just how it works. I know it's supposed to function like threatening reach - but what does that mean? So if the enemy so much as moves without shifting, does it go off? Or only if the enemy does something like use a ranged attack? I'm not sure how well this would work with the threat of an SC.
What about Storm Spike? I can see it providing a nice catch-22 - either the enemy moves away from the SC, which triggers Spirit's Shield, or they take the Spike damage.

Edit: Dire Radiance also possible, though for fluff reasons I don't want to take an arcane power (the character has links with the Ashbound druids...). Also, I found the craziest combo for the MC cleric (see above) in a zombie-infested world - the Paragon feat Pervasive Light (DP). When you use a non-radiant power on a vulnerable-radiant enemy, the vulnerability counts anyway as if you used a radiant power. For clerics, not a huge deal. But if all my powers are non-radiant anyway...

Aug 23, 2011 -- 11:51PM, Sianger wrote:

Hmm. Direct the Strike to free up another Shaman at-will is definitely an interesting idea.

The DM okay-ed the Divine Healer-Battle Cleric's Armaments combo (since it involves being a cleric but not actually using any divine powers!), so my AC problems are solved, but that takes up the MC feat so Adept Dilettante is unfortunately out. Otherwise, Thunderwave push 6-8? Yes please!

I know Grasping Tide is just damn good in general, and it's definitely an option. I'm wondering about specific synergies with non-shaman at-wills though. Fire Hawk is interesting and I'm not sure just how it works. I know it's supposed to function like threatening reach - but what does that mean? So if the enemy so much as moves without shifting, does it go off? Or only if the enemy does something like use a ranged attack? I'm not sure how well this would work with the threat of an SC.
What about Storm Spike? I can see it providing a nice catch-22 - either the enemy moves away from the SC, which triggers Spirit's Shield, or they take the Spike damage.

Edit: Dire Radiance also possible, though for fluff reasons I don't want to take an arcane power (the character has links with the Ashbound druids...). Also, I found the craziest combo for the MC cleric (see above) in a zombie-infested world - the Paragon feat Pervasive Light (DP). When you use a non-radiant power on a vulnerable-radiant enemy, the vulnerability counts anyway as if you used a radiant power. For clerics, not a huge deal. But if all my powers are non-radiant anyway...

Yes, Fire Hawk triggers if the target moves w/o shifting (or teleporting). And it also triggers if the target makes a ranged or area attack. It is terrific on an isolated monster, so sic your SC on a *different* target than your Fire Hawk target, thus controlling *both* of them.

I wouldn't recommend Storm Spike; the extra damage scales badly and thus won't provide much of a catch-22.

Pervasive Light is a great find for your non-Divine MC-Cleric! Bravo! 

Another possible use for Fire Hawk is to make your SC more sticky.  If it's the only target for a melee enemy, then that enemy can either go after someone else (and take Fire Hawk damage again), or attack the SC and deal far less damage than he would have otherwise (and wasting any status effects). 

EDIT:  One of my Sentinels took Fire Hawk, and it was loads of fun sending my animal companion and SC (Shaman M/C) after isolated enemies, and then attacking another one with Fire Hawk.  Talk about threatening the board!

Nov 15, 2009 -- 10:23PM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

Encounter

Call Forth the Spirit World (D387) A very good zone around your spirit that makes enemies take -2 to attacks and that heals bloodied allies 5 hp a turn.  It needs to be sustained and if your SC is destroyed it goes away so this gets better if you have upped the defenses of your SC some.  (The wording is not clear since it uses the term "destroyed" and spirit companions are not normally "destroyed", but the feat retributive spirit makes it sound like destoyed is when a creature does enough damage to make it disappear.   NOTE: Dragon has this colored as a daily power, but lists it as an encounter power and since sustainable encounter powers are rare I think there may have meant it to be a daily at first, but changed their minds or made a mistake.)
[/sblock]

I will be keeping this power forever, thanks for the suggestion.

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Oh, CS *shakehead*

Absent errata, the official version of the power is the one in the most recently publish rules source - and the Online Compendium is NOT a rules source.  Here, that rules source is Dragon 387.

In this case, they seem to be correct, but that's pure happenstance.

Also, it's utility power, you only give it up if you retrain it.

I am sure that RAW it is an encounter power and probably RAI is supposed to be one.

I have that note there because originally I just looked at the color of the power and read what it did and did not notice it was an encounter power.  So I catagorized it as a daily and want to make sure others don't make the same mistake I did.

Jun 30, 2011 -- 7:27AM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

The the battle cleric's lore article says: "along with an optional class feature, Battle Cleric’s Lore, which a cleric can take in place of Healer’s Lore."  The general boards consensus, which CS confirmed at least once, is that this works for PC's who take divine healer feat or for hybrid clerics.  Battle cleric's Lore says: "You gain a +2 shield bonus to AC, and you have proficiency with scale armor"  The only prereq for divine healer is a 15 wisdom.

I think there is a good chance this will be changed, but for the time being, it is a fix for the shaman who wasn't tied to another multiclass and lets con shamans drop strength.  Clerics were already one of the better classes to mc into since you get a holy symbol slot and they are one of the few classes with good paragon path choices for shamans.

I realize that Customer Support agrees with a lot of things that don't make sense, purely out of a desire to not make any sweeping decisions. However, in the case of Battle Cleric's Lore, I find it difficult to justify to myself.  There is nothing in the RAW that says you can chose a class' alternate option class feature when you take a multi-class feat. The spirit of this one in particular doesn't even make sense. It's an option for STR based clerics who don't have the wisdom to make Healer's lore worthwhile.

How does using wisdom to qualify for a multi-class feat make any sense for a STR based option? It's also meant for a base class that already has hide and chain proficiency. A single armor upgrade would make sense, but a jump of 3??? really?

I understand the desire to pursue, it's just TOO good. As much as I would love to take this route, it's sounds too much like a junky telling himself it's ok to steal since he NEEDS to have his fix...

Sep 14, 2011 -- 6:54AM, thespaceinvader wrote:

Oh, CS *shakehead*

Absent errata, the official version of the power is the one in the most recently publish rules source - and the Online Compendium is NOT a rules source.  Here, that rules source is Dragon 387.

In this case, they seem to be correct, but that's pure happenstance.

Also, it's utility power, you only give it up if you retrain it.

I realize that I don't have to switch it out. I meant that I will never retrain it, unlike some Shaman utilities like Spirit Call which are better to retrain into at a later stage of your developement.

Hi, I have a question which came up in our yesterday game. Our group wanted to cross a chasm and so i suggested to bind a rope around my SC and let it float over the chasm. Is there anything in the rules that tells if this is allowed? I'm not sure myself, nore is our DM. Finally we went over the chasm in another way, but maybe it comes up in the future.

Similar question: Can my SC open a door? Or bring me my newspaper? ;-)

Thanks.

Sep 16, 2011 -- 12:51AM, LarsVolta wrote:

Hi, I have a question which came up in our yesterday game. Our group wanted to cross a chasm and so i suggested to bind a rope around my SC and let it float over the chasm. Is there anything in the rules that tells if this is allowed? I'm not sure myself, nore is our DM. Finally we went over the chasm in another way, but maybe it comes up in the future.

Similar question: Can my SC open a door? Or bring me my newspaper? ;-)

Thanks.

Mechanically, the SC is a "conjuration" with some additional rules. It does not have a physical body, so you cannot bind a rope around it.

In contrast to summonings, you can only issue commands to it, which either "call spirit companions" allows, or you have powers for. So by itself, it cannot carry or manipulate any object.

The shaman LV 2 util. power "Assistence of the strong spirit" allows it to slide objects and allies, so this may solve your problem. But you should ask your DM, wether the objects is still held by the spirit at the end of the power, or the rope would fall down the chasm.

Also note that conjurations cannot make skillchecks, so it does not have senses of it's own.

Does attacking through your SC break the hidden condition you get from a stealth check? I think it would be fun to make a character that no one ever sees...

That has been done, though I can't remember which build again. Something about a Shaman attacking with Rogue powers from another room.

That said, yes, attacking from your SC breaks hidden. You have to rehide afterwards [edit]unless the power says otherwise.[/edit] I should have clarified this earlier. Thanks BlinkBlink.

Mellored's Scry and Die build iirc.

Here's the link for Scry and Die. No need to rehide after attacking with this build as the Rogue powers being used explicitly don't lose hidden when attacking.

If the person who gets the attack from Spirit of the Killing Shot does all their high crit and critical die damage max out too?

If they crit I would say they do max out all their high crit dice.  That would be a good power to combine with Prophecy of Doom if you had someone with a really high damage on a crit weapon.

Oct 24, 2011 -- 7:27AM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

If they crit I would say they do max out all their high crit dice.  That would be a good power to combine with Prophecy of Doom if you had someone with a really high damage on a crit weapon.

Okay, so I'm playing a Protector Spirit Shaman at level 21, now, and I have a few notes to add to the Handbook. It's an awesome class in play, but obviously not as broken as Warlord or Cleric in most ways.

Stuff of note:

Keeper of the Everflow is a very nice ED for a Shaman, although I'd much prefer Reincarnate Champion at 24 for stuff like Mythic Senses (Minotaur Feat - Use Perception for Initiative) and the Shadar-Kai's Ghostly Rejuvenation (Feat).

Spirit Binding (Utility 16) is AMAZING in play. Resist 10 for the whole party if done right, lasts an additional round for a Minor Action. What's more, I'd say RAW it lets you keep the benefit even if they move away from the spirit after that - after all, it changes the qualifier. Arguable, but I think so. Even if not, Mighty Spirit makes it oh so easy to use.

The "Ioun Stone of Insight" (Head Slot lvl. 21) is a very useful item. Not only does it add damage to all your attacks, it boosts practically all your skills, and among those is the ever important Perception. It saw great use, and being able to notice any and all Lurkers is plain nice.

Shared Valor Armor (Leather/Chain) is VERY nice, combined with the Rainbriger PP. You get THP every time you use a Healing power. What's more...

That lets you use Ravenous Blessing without taking any real damage, using those THP to soak the damage. And that's DIVINE.

Boots of the Fencing Master come highly recommended, seeing as your Spirit moves your speed, no matter what you do with your Move Action. This, combined with the AC problem of Shamans and the fact they usually wear Chain (can't use Elven Chain for an Item bonus) makes it even better.

Unless I'm mistaken, Nimble Spirit has no limit on uses per round. That means you can use it to make a Melee Spirit 1 attack 20 squares away and then move it anywhere else within 20 of you as a Minor Action, effectively.

Dec 5, 2011 -- 12:02PM, CantripN wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken, Nimble Spirit has no limit on uses per round. That means you can use it to make a Melee Spirit 1 attack 20 squares away and then move it anywhere else within 20 of you as a Minor Action, effectively.

The power "call spirit companion" requires your SC to not be present, to use. So you must use powers that make him disappear at first, if you want to recall him... 40 squares in the other direction. However, the new powers from dark sun campaign setting got that covered.

Dec 6, 2011 -- 2:57AM, crayne wrote:

Dec 5, 2011 -- 12:02PM, CantripN wrote:

Unless I'm mistaken, Nimble Spirit has no limit on uses per round. That means you can use it to make a Melee Spirit 1 attack 20 squares away and then move it anywhere else within 20 of you as a Minor Action, effectively.

The power "call spirit companion" requires your SC to not be present, to use. So you must use powers that make him disappear at first, if you want to recall him... 40 squares in the other direction. However, the new powers from dark sun campaign setting got that covered.

Either that, or use a Minor Action to Unsummon it, and a Free Action to put it elsewhere.

I noticed in the Equipment section that Gelatinous was confused whether Staff of Corrosion would add the Acid keyword to melee spirit attacks.

I can confirm that it does, since you gain all the keywords of all damage types you inflict with a power.  The damage from the Staff of Corrosion (and its little brother Staff of the Serpent) is extra damage, not "when you hit with a melee power, deal 1d6 poison damage", so it's incorporated in the power itself.

TLDR: The two staffs will add the Poison or Acid keyword.

I just wanted to clarify a question in the FAQ section:

"When can I summon my SC?"

You says that an Animist shaman can summon their SC as a free action at the beginning of their turn if their spirit companion is not present at that time.

This is correct, but it is also misleading.  The wording of the Elemental Spirit feature is:

Spirit Boon: Your allies gain a +2 bonus to saving throws while adjacent to your spirit companion. In addition, if your spirit companion is not present at the start of your turn, you can summon it once during that turn as a free action.

So, an Animist Shaman can use their normal Minor action summon, use a power which makes the SC go away and then use the free action summon from their Spirit Boon.  This makes it so that an Animist Shaman should *always* have their Spirit Companion on the field, unless they have a power active which is preventing them from summoning it.  Some of the powers which give an ally a multi-turn buff will do this, for instance.  

Let me clarify:

At the start of the Animist Shaman's turn, they do not have their SC out.  They use a minor action to summon it.  They proceed to make waste of a bad guy using a power which makes the spirit companion go away.  They then summon the spirit companion as a free action since their spirit companion was not on the battle field when they started their turn.  On the next turn, their spirit companion is already out, so they make their attack and then resummon it as a minor action.

Typing this out, it seems to be a moot point, since after the first round of combat, you should never go a round without your SC out on the field (unless it gets attacked and destroyed.) 

Reread:

Spirit Boon: Your allies gain a +2 bonus to saving throws while adjacent to your spirit companion. In addition, if your spirit companion is not present at the start of your turn, you can summon it once during that turn as a free action.

The trigger point is right at the start of your turn: it checks for the existence of your Spirit Companion being on the board, and at that point in time, if it isn't, you can resummon it as a Free Action "during that turn".  The description given in the handbook is correct.

Reread:

Q: When can I summon my SC?
A: Only during your turn.  Either it takes a minor action which has to be on your turn or it if you have a feats like sudden call or nimble spirit, it is a free action on your turn.  Animists can summon it as a free action at the beginning of your turn if it was not present then.  You can also ready an action to summon it on a trigger, but that will be the only action you can do since readying an action only grants you one action.

 

The FAQ in this handbook has this entry.  It is wrong and needs to be corrected, as you and I are both agreeing.

EDIT: Also, it should mention that the Shaman multiclass feat makes you summon your Spirit Companion as a Standard action, unless you have some means to override this (such as one of the feats mentioned which let you summon it as a free action.) 

Jan 18, 2012 -- 1:21AM, Undrhil wrote:

The FAQ in this handbook has this entry.  It is wrong and needs to be corrected, as you and I are both agreeing.

No... the FAQ is correct.  Animists resummon their Spirit Companions the very next turn after it disappears, not immediately after it vanishes, via that feature.

But they don't have to use the free action summon at the beginning of their turn.  That's what I'm pointing out.

I agree with what undrhil has said after rereading the class entry.  You can minor action summon, dismiss it and then free action summon it the same round.  This can acutally be important for things for spirit positioning and similar issues.

I am going to edit the FAQ along with a couple of minor changes. 

As long as you're not using the feature to resummon it on your own turn (instead via Nimble Call, etc) then yea, I can see that.

Thanks for all the hard work on the guide GelOct. Its helped a lot. I have a few questions & a comment.
Anybody who wants is to is free to jump right on in.

Q1)  I just acquired the 2nd SC (daily) at level 10.  Can I move both SC's with a single move action ?
Q2)  Is there any consensus on positioning the 2nd SC ? ATM I am using my primary with either the tank or top
        melee striker in a tactical manner, but I can see placing the 2nd either in another position up front where
        the 2nd melee guy could benefit or back with with the caster/ranged people. In the latter case it would help
        with healing since the current DM is picking on those guys a lot and they don't have a lot of surges.
Q3)  The Level 9 Daily Spirit of the Earth Arisen has its own move. Can I move both it and my SC with a single
        move action ?
Q4)  I am confused on the rules concerning the usage of non totem implements. If I get an Orb of Judicious
        Conjuration can I use it as is or would I have to MC?  I really need help on sustained minors and so far this
        and a cloak daily are all I have found that touch on this. In 2 of the 3 cases I have used Spirit of the Earth
        Arisen* I have had to drop it because I could not realistically maintain it given the circumstances.
Q5)  My group pretty much demands the healers take Restful Healing to save surges but it doesn't register in the
        guide. Why ? Are we alone in counting non combat surges against the days allotment ? We average 3-5
        encounters per day depending on the serverity.  ::cough:: level 14 elite Icy Beholder, nasty Blue Ice, and 2
        Ice trolls vs a Level 9 party of 6. ::cough::

C1)  I am old fart. My group which is also mostly old farts is very prejudiced on anything from the Dragon and non
        class related splat books. To be blunt we do not allow them  If you remove all those from your lists some of the
        powers have very limited choices.

*yes I know there is a better power at that level I made a bunch of bad choices and haven't had  the chance to correct it yet.

I'm an 'old fart' too ... but I'll note that Dragon has changed a lot since it's older incarnations.  While I wouldn't have used 99.99% of it's stuff back in the day, things are different now.  It's really worth using for many things now and frankly some 4e classes just don't work well without dragon support.

Q1) Yes.  Them moving is sort of an add on to the fact that you took a move action.

q2) It would depend on the group.  I took Twilight's Veil the last time I played a paragon shaman since it really fit our group well so I have never used that many spirits at once.

Q3) if you move the spirit of the earth arisen, you could also move the other 2 spirits with the same move action.

Q4) You would need to mc into a class like wizard or psion.  Then you could use it fine in place of a totem.  They changed the rules about this with the release of essentials.

Q5) I find in combat healing much more important and none of the groups I have played a leader for have ever asked me to take restful healing.  I don't think I have ever seen a PC with the feat in an actual game.  Its the sort of thing that probably varies widely by group and its rare for my group to see anyone run out of surges so its never been an issue.  A lot of groups use comrade's circle to greater effect.

And I agree with todd about dragon.  If anything WOTC uses Dragon magazine as a patch mechanism for a lot of underpowered classes.  The templar cleric and avenger for instance don't really compete with similar classes without it.  If anything Dragon is underpowered overall compared to books in 4E for the non-patch stuff.

Is Spirit of the Tempest seriously supposed to be the only melee Shaman power in the game that doesn't have the Spirit keyword?

Yes. 

They have a couple of close dailies, but that is the only melee power without the spirit keyword.  I thought it was a mistake at first and some of the first posts I made in this handbook ask about that, but they have had over 2 years to fix it.  It would be skyblue otherwise. 

The one time my pc had it I was in a defenderless party so we all were on the front lines some of the time.

Hybrid "wall of pets" build. Goes first in combat to send a 3x1 square of blockers (pets +Spirit companion) to create a choke point somewhere on the map. Various other powers are used to slow down/prone other groups or create line of sight issues for ranged attackers. The pets are kept alive by granted damage resistance and temp HP. Hand of Radiance when I need to do minion popping or light multiattacks. 

4 heals per fight (2 minor actions, 1 /w Action Point, and the level 11 windspiral power)
2 utility encounter minor actions to grant saving throws to multiple targets
Virtually auto passes most nature, religion, arcana or dungeoneering check (total +21 in modifiers /w a reroll)

Still trying to plug holes for this guy as a primary party leader/controller

Not certain on the movement rules regarding moving everything I have on the field on the same turn.
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======

Druid - Shaman, level 11
Half-Elf, Druid (Sentinel)/Shaman, Spiral Wind's Ally
Season: Druid of Spring
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Spear)
Versatile Expertise Option: Versatile Expertise (Totem)
Companion Spirit (Hybrid) Option: Protector Spirit (Hybrid)
Hybrid Shaman Option: Hybrid Shaman Fortitude
Hybrid Talent Option: Primal Guardian (Sentinel)
Half-Elf Power Selection Option: Dilettante
Associate: Trained Young Owlbear
Inherent Bonuses
Dalelands (Dalelands Benefit)
Theme: Fey Beast Tamer

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 19, DEX 12, INT 11, WIS 23, CHA 9

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 14, DEX 11, INT 10, WIS 18, CHA 8


AC: 23 Fort: 25 Ref: 20 Will: 25
HP: 81 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +18, Nature +18, Perception +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +5, Athletics +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +9, Heal +13, History +5, Intimidate +4, Religion +5, Stealth +6, Streetwise +4, Thievery +6

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Shaman Feature: Call Spirit Companion
Shaman Feature: Healing Spirit
Shaman Feature: Speak with Spirits
Invoker Attack 1: Hand of Radiance
Druid Attack 1: Grasping Tide (Druid)
Shaman Attack 1: Protecting Strike
Shaman Attack 1: Thunder Bear's Warding
Druid Attack 1: Summon Pack Wolf
Druid Utility 2: All-Encompassing Nature
Druid Attack 3: Wind Wall
Shaman Attack 5: War Chieftain's Blessing
Druid Attack 5: Vine Serpents
Shaman Utility 6: Sudden Restoration
Shaman Attack 7: Winter Wind Spirit
Druid Utility 10: Clear the Chaff
Spiral Wind's Ally Attack 11: Spiral Gust

FEATS
Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Improved Initiative
Level 4: Versatile Expertise
Level 6: Battlewise
Level 8: Strengthening Spirit
Level 10: Improved Defenses
Level 11: Versatile Master

ITEMS
Leather Armor
Alfsair Spear Spear +2 x1
Healer's Brooch +2
Shared Valor Leather Armor +2 x1
Light Shield x1
====== End ======

I read the tome expertise feat today.  I updated the early entry about implements and the wizard mc section about it.

It is really powerful for shaman since your spirit will always cause adjacent enemies to grant, but you have to MC wizard to get it.

Does the protector Druids pet count as a summon? Thinking of reworking my above hybrid into 18 con, 18 wisdom 13 intellect 11 Dex to accommodate learned spell caster for tombexpertise and ritual casting.

Having 3 mobile ca auras would bereally nice but being able to swap the wolf for a bear would help even further from a defensive standpoint 


 

I don't think the sentinel ones does since it is an animal companion.

For the protector druid I think air spirit (which is a minor action at will summons) and the summon natural ally powers would.  I am not an expert on druids, but that is what the compendium looks like to me.

And the tome expertise feat doesn't mention anything about needing to attack with the conjurations/summons.  Its they cause enemies to grant CA while adjacent so anything with summons or conjuration keyword would work.

Mar 23, 2012 -- 2:38PM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

I don't think the sentinel ones does since it is an animal companion.

For the protector druid I think air spirit (which is a minor action at will summons) and the summon natural ally powers would.  I am not an expert on druids, but that is what the compendium looks like to me.

And the tome expertise feat doesn't mention anything about needing to attack with the conjurations/summons.  Its they cause enemies to grant CA while adjacent so anything with summons or conjuration keyword would work.

That's correct, neither the sentinel nor the fey beast tamer animal count as summoning or conjuration, from a rules perspective, though i always describe them as some kind of conjuration, in fluff.

The "Mage hand" cantrip is also a conjuration. "Hedge Wizard's Gloves" (LV 4) grant you this power, but as a standard action. But the cool stuff starsts, when you get a a Staff of Spectral Hands (LV 3+). It lets you conjure WIS mod mage hands at the same time (but limited by 1 + the staffs enh bonus) and sustain these with the same minor action. You don't need to use this staff to attack, just hold it (implements are always one handed), so you could use the LV 3 variant, or if you want more hands get it on LV 8 or 12 for 3 or 4 hands. You don't even need to waste a standard action to conjure the hands during combat, if you do so outside of it and sustain them. You could have them massaging you all the time, at places where your normal hands don't usually get...

I'd just like to point out that you don't *have* to MC Wizard to get the ability to use a Tome arcane implement.  You can MC *any* arcane class and take the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat.  Yes, it costs an extra feat, but the ability to choose to MC Artificer (for an extra heal per day) is awesome for a Shaman. 

You are correcnt, but I think in general a shaman is going to get more out of going with storm pillar, thunderwave, or another at will as encounter power most of the time.

Since you said that the only drawback of dwarfs are their speed of 5. Is the "Quick Step" feat (Dragon #391) recommendable then?
It is a heroic dwarven only feat, which gives them a speed of 6. Not as fast as an elf, but at least on par with other races then.

May 25, 2012 -- 8:59PM, the_move wrote:

Since you said that the only drawback of dwarfs are their speed of 5. Is the "Quick Step" feat (Dragon #391) recommendable then?
It is a heroic dwarven only feat, which gives them a speed of 6. Not as fast as an elf, but at least on par with other races then.

Dwarves are one of the strongest races in 4th edition and this feat removes the only real drawback they have, so it's totally worth it. Also rememeber that you can move your spirit your speed when you take a move action, so you get 2 for the price of one.

On the other hand, it's usefulness also depends on your playstyle, party composition and terrain. If your party consists largely of static melees, you hardly need to move yourself or you spirit, so this feat does nothing for you. But if your DM likes difficult terrain and your party moves a lot, this feat is gold (remember that speed 5 is halved and rounded to speed 2 in difficult terrain).

The only thing is I am not sure where I would fit that in on a standard shaman build so its hard to rate.

I will include it however.

I just noticed that I have not cleaned up the racial feats in a long time.  I will need to go do that soon.  Human perserverance was in there still and that has been outdated for a while.

Mar 23, 2012 -- 12:16PM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

I read the tome expertise feat today.  I updated the early entry about implements and the wizard mc section about it.

It is really powerful for shaman since your spirit will always cause adjacent enemies to grant, but you have to MC wizard to get it.

Just out of curiousity, with multiclassing or without and in a world with very little magical items available, how do you maximize both Damage and healing for your Shaman?

Jul 17, 2012 -- 12:56PM, chocbywdr wrote:

Mar 23, 2012 -- 12:16PM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

I read the tome expertise feat today.  I updated the early entry about implements and the wizard mc section about it.

It is really powerful for shaman since your spirit will always cause adjacent enemies to grant, but you have to MC wizard to get it.

Just out of curiousity, with multiclassing or without and in a world with very little magical items available, how do you maximize both Damage and healing for your Shaman?

If your party has a striker with a basic attack, the best shaman built would be an elementalist shaman, with int/wis 18 and invigorarting spirit feat (or what it's name was). Hand out INT mod temps, each time you call your spirit and command your striker to attack with spirit infusion. On the long run you'll prevent more damage with these temps, then you'd have healed. Also, the +2 to attack and +4 damage from spirit infusion should also be noticable.

So another question, What other damage enhancing feats or items stack with  the feats Lightning soul and/or Silvery moon.  I am trying to figure out how to build my Shammy.

Jul 24, 2012 -- 6:34PM, chocbywdr wrote:

So another question, What other damage enhancing feats or items stack with  the feats Lightning soul and/or Silvery moon.  I am trying to figure out how to build my Shammy.

As a leader i wouldn't take any damage increasing feats. Otherwise i'd play a striker.

I cannot find the feat "silvery moon" in online compendium, what does it do? Lightning soul grants a feat bonus to damage rolls with lightning powers, so this does not stack with other bonuses of the feat type. Why don't you choose the feat "implement expertise" instead? It grants +2 to damage of any type with implement attacks. Shamans have only implement powers. Other than that, check the handbook for other feat recommendations.

I would assume he meant Silvery Glow.

I think its ok to take some damage increasing feats with a few shaman builds, but it shouldn't be a big focus for most shamans. Mainly for stalker shamans since a lot of their threat comes down doing decent damage with Spirit's Fangs and Stalker's Strike so its ok to boost those some.  I took proficiency in a farseeing totem for instance which gave me a slight damage increase and increased the range on some of my attacks and I think I used an autumn harvest totem for a while that did extra damage vs bloodied enemies.

Most shamans should not worry that much about damage since their main benefit to the party is enabling and control.  For a few other leaders like clerics and runepriests it makes more sense to focus on damage since they can get fairly good damage builds without sacrificing much as leaders.

I added an updated panther shaman enabling build yesterday that also has a good bit of "enemies attacking each other" powers.  Its deva mc wizard voice of the ravaged/soul of the world.  It can also be done as an animist with some minor changes to powers and feats.  I think its the first build I posted that takes advantage of tome expertise as well.

The only two obvious shaman builds I can think of that the handbook needs are a zone build and a regeneration build (edit: I have now added a regeneration build).  If anyone has any other builds or can think of one I should add please post.

Sep 19, 2012 -- 7:00AM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

I added an updated panther shaman enabling build yesterday that also has a good bit of "enemies attacking each other" powers.  Its deva mc wizard voice of the ravaged/soul of the world.  It can also be done as an animist with some minor changes to powers and feats.  I think its the first build I posted that takes advantage of tome expertise as well.

The only two obvious shaman builds I can think of that the handbook needs are a zone build and a regeneration build (edit: I have now added a regeneration build).  If anyone has any other builds or can think of one I should add please post.

I can't wait to see the zone one.  

I'm trying to figure out if the range to which conjurations can move to is (a) the longer of line of sight or the range of the power, or (b) the shorter of line of sight or the range of the power. The compendium entry for conjurations states:

Movable Conjurations: If the power used to create a conjuration allows it to be moved, it’s a movable conjuration. At the end of the creator’s turn, a movable conjuration ends if the creator doesn’t have line of effect to at least 1 square of the conjuration or if the creator isn’t within range (using the power’s range) of at least 1 square of the conjuration.

Nov 15, 2009 -- 10:11PM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

Spirit Companion FAQ

Q; How far away can my SC go and still be sustained?

A: It needs to be within 20 squares of you at the end of your turn for you to sustain it. 

SC's don't have a sustain line in the power, so I don't understand why it would need to be sustained. Is this a reference to the general rule about conjurations? 

Nov 15, 2009 -- 10:11PM, GelatinousOctahedron wrote:

... the new rules compendium clarified it with this comment on page 120: "A close power's range rarely matters. If it is ever relevant, the number given for the size also functions as the range"

I can't find the quoted text on page 120 of the Rules Compendium. Am I blind? What am I screwing up?