Here is the way the rule is so please pay attention.
Use the standard point buy system when creating the scores and then add your racial bonuses. Now take two points from any of your scores and add those two to another score. If you have an 18 and you want to make it a 20 then it has to be a stat that you get a racial bonus to. For example if you are playing an elf then it has to be either Dex or Wis. If you are playing a human then it has to be the stat that you chose for your racial bonus.
Human Wizard level 1 (I chose Intelligence for my racial mod): 8, 14, 12, (16)18, 14, 11, Now I take 2 away from my strength and I add those 2 to my Intelligence to make it a 20. So now my scores will be 6, 14, 12, 20, 14, 11.
I don't have to take two away from my lowest and add it to my highest, I can do it in any combination but it is only allowed once and you can't go lower than a 6 and you can't go higher than an 18 unless it is a stat that you receive a racial bonus.
This kinda reminds me of my last long-term DM's house rule: He gave us a 14 in all six stats, and then told us to switch stats around however we wished, on a 1-for-1 basis. It didn't break anything, because he refused to let us die anyway and none of us were hardcore optimizers, but most of us did end up with the same lopsided array: 10, 10, 10, 18, 18, 18.
Here is the way the rule is so please pay attention.Use the standard point buy system when creating the scores and then add your racial bonuses. Now take two points from any of your scores and add those two to another score. If you have an 18 and you want to make it a 20 then it has to be a stat that you get a racial bonus to. For example if you are playing an elf then it has to be either Dex or Wis. If you are playing a human then it has to be the stat that you chose for your racial bonus.
Human Wizard level 1 (I chose Intelligence for my racial mod): 8, 14, 12, (16)18, 14, 11, Now I take 2 away from my strength and I add those 2 to my Intelligence to make it a 20. So now my scores will be 6, 14, 12, 20, 14, 11.
I don't have to take two away from my lowest and add it to my highest, I can do it in any combination but it is only allowed once and you can't go lower than a 6 and you can't go higher than an 18 unless it is a stat that you receive a racial bonus.
Okay, so your DM lets you generate stats in a way that makes you a bit more powerful.
So what?
Why should we care, and more importantly, why do you care if we care?
Xun's houserule creates the sameamount of trouble that bumping the Point Buy of the game to 29 points does. (That's the cost of bumping a 16 to an 18 after having a 22 Point Buy)
The 6 is totally irrelevant to combat mechanics, so it's roleplaying only, which means that it will create as much trouble on a 6 as it does on an 8 or a 4, because it's just how you play it. It will hardly impact any skill rolls, it won't impact your defenses or attacks at all, it's just flavor.
The new 18 or 20 is simply 7 extra points of Point Buy, so it's as troublesome as just giving those players the extra 7 points of pointbuy.
And there's your answer Xun.
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Riiiiiiight. We're discussing HIS house rule, not yours. Yours are worthless here.
Um, no. We're not discussing the houserule or at least, I'm not. I'm discussing whether having this houserule could lead to problems or not. That's the original scope of the thread, and that's all I'm addressing. Beyond that, I couldn't care less about the specs of the houserule. I don't care to discuss its merits, if any, or how to improve it or whatever. All I'm talking about is the potential for problems - and I can tell you off the bat that a houserule only being usable in an otherwise RAW game is a big problem for a lot of groups. I don't know anyone who plays strictly RAW myself.
Right. If you are using one method, the other methods don't apply.
Xun just posted the houserule includes PB must be used. There's still a possibility that other stat generation methods are allowed but don't get the benefit of this houserule, but either way it shows bias towards a specific method - such bias can be problematic for some groups or individual players in a group.
The odds are, that rolled stats would be worse, yes. However, I commonly see rolled stats that high or higher.
Doesn't matter. He's asking whether problems can occur. Saying no problems occur when considering high rolled stats is meaningless if the possibility of non-high rolled stats exists (and that's more of a probability than a possibility in this case).
His house rule clearly raises the power level. If his rule is as it states and can't achieve a 20 before racial bonuses, then it won't break the game and really isn't that big of a deal if the DM wants to make harder encounters.
Breaking the game and causing problems are not the same thing. He asked about the latter, not the former. Besides, I know players who really, really like rolling stats and for whom a houserule that devalues this option *is* a gamebreaker. They're a very small minority, I assume, but they nonetheless exist.
A 5 is very rare in rolled stats, let alone a 3. So rare as to not even be worth considering. The lowest I typically see when stats are rolled by an entire group of players is a 7, and even then very often the lowest will be an 8 or 9.
No. Rare doesn't mean it's not worth considering. I'm certainly not the most experienced player around (even though 20 years is plenty of experience) yet I've seen dozens of rolled stat arrays which included a stat of 6 or less (no less common than 18s, at any rate, and I think we've all seen 18s rolled). Rare or not, it's still possible - and if it happens, it's going to be a problem.
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Riiiiiiight. We're discussing HIS house rule, not yours. Yours are worthless here.
Um, no. We're not discussing the houserule or at least, I'm not. I'm discussing whether having this houserule could lead to problems or not.
Um, you can't do that without discussing his house rule.
That's the original scope of the thread, and that's all I'm addressing. Beyond that, I couldn't care less about the specs of the houserule.
Great! It's still discussing his house rule, though. Even if all you're doing is showing how it can cause problems, that's still a discussion about his house rule. Further, when you bring other house rules into it, you're not even showing how his house rule can be a problem. At that point you're doing absolutely nothing to further this thread in any way.
and I can tell you off the bat that a houserule only being usable in an otherwise RAW game is a big problem for a lot of groups. I don't know anyone who plays strictly RAW myself.
Absolutely irrelevant. No one elses game has any merit whatsoever when discussing his house rule. You don't know what other house rules he may or may not be using, and none of yours apply unless he is using an identical house rule. The ONLY way to have any sort of coherant discussion is to assume that the rest of his game is by RAW. If he offers up other house rules, you may then take those house rules, and ONLY those house rules into consideration.
No. Rare doesn't mean it's not worth considering. I'm certainly not the most experienced player around (even though 20 years is plenty of experience) yet I've seen dozens of rolled stat arrays which included a stat of 6 or less (no less common than 18s, at any rate, and I think we've all seen 18s rolled).
They are less common than 18's. An 18 only needs 3 out of 4 dice to read 6's. A 6 requires all 4 dice to be 1's and 2's. To get a 3, all 4 dice must read 1.
Rare or not, it's still possible - and if it happens, it's going to be a problem.
If a meteor falls out of the sky and hits you in the head, that will be a problem, too. Are you now going to run around worried about getting hit in the head by a meteor? Of course not. Why? It's very rare and not worth considering.
Um, you can't do that without discussing his house rule.
Yes, I can. I'm taking the houserule as a simple fact. No discussion necessary, because the rule is taken as is. No discussion about whether it can/should be improved or how, no discussion about whether it is a good rule or not, nothing like that. All that I need to consider are the potential consequences of having this rule, and those can all logically and indisputably be deduced. There is no discussion of the houserule itself required in any way.
Great! It's still discussing his house rule, though. Even if all you're doing is showing how it can cause problems, that's still a discussion about his house rule.
Again, no - there is no room for discussion when presented with facts. If someone wants to dispute facts, that's not a discussion. That's a (pointless) argument.
Absolutely irrelevant. No one elses game has any merit whatsoever when discussing his house rule.
That would be correct if Xun had specified he wanted to know if his houserule could lead to problems for his games and his games only (which would be impossible to answer for anyone not involved in his games and aware of all the specifics). He didn't, and I'm pretty sure that's not what he wants anyway.
They are less common than 18's. An 18 only needs 3 out of 4 dice to read 6's. A 6 requires all 4 dice to be 1's and 2's. To get a 3, all 4 dice must read 1.
The possibility of getting a single 18 in a 6-stat array is close enough to the possibility of one of these six stats being a 6, 5, 4 or 3.
If a meteor falls out of the sky and hits you in the head, that will be a problem, too. Are you now going to run around worried about getting hit in the head by a meteor? Of course not. Why? It's very rare and not worth considering.
No, it's not worth considering because there's nothing I can do about it anyway, short of spending the rest of my life in a bunker. Chances of planetary destruction by a meteor are astronomically (excuse the pun) small as well, but I don't think it stopped the authorities from making contingency plans for it (it certainly didn't stop Hollywood screenwriters).
Garic's City - A 3.5 D&D PbP (play-by-post) roleplaying game with a decade of tradition. Enter and enjoy the city of Garic and explore the surrounding, unchartered lands. A city in the middle of nowhere is always in need of heroes...
Yes, I can. I'm taking the houserule as a simple fact. No discussion necessary, because the rule is taken as is. No discussion about whether it can/should be improved or how, no discussion about whether it is a good rule or not, nothing like that. All that I need to consider are the potential consequences of having this rule, and those can all logically and indisputably be deduced. There is no discussion of the houserule itself required in any way.
So discussing the consequences of war is not discussing war? Discussing the consequences of pregnancy is not discussing pregnancy? You CANNOT discuss the consequences of something without ALSO being in a discussion about that thing. The consequences are a part of that topic.
Yes, I can. I'm taking the houserule as a simple fact. No discussion necessary, because the rule is taken as is. No discussion about whether it can/should be improved or how, no discussion about whether it is a good rule or not, nothing like that. All that I need to consider are the potential consequences of having this rule, and those can all logically and indisputably be deduced. There is no discussion of the houserule itself required in any way.
So discussing the consequences of war is not discussing war? Discussing the consequences of pregnancy is not discussing pregnancy? You CANNOT discuss the consequences of something without ALSO being in a discussion about that thing. The consequences are a part of that topic.
When I'm discussing my job, am I also discussing the education which lead to that job? When discussing a friend's whiplash, am I also discussing the increased traffic which contributed to him having an accident? Hardly.
When I'm discussing the changes in my life having a child will have, I'm not talking about pregnancy (I would be if I were discussing the changes in my life trying to conceive will have though). When discussing the consequences of war, war itself does not have to enter the conversation. It well might, but even then it needn't be discussed - it's more likely it'll just be referenced.
But let's make it simple: point out any post of mine on this thread where I actually discuss the houserule rather than merely reference it or ask for clarification, and you just might change my mind.
Garic's City - A 3.5 D&D PbP (play-by-post) roleplaying game with a decade of tradition. Enter and enjoy the city of Garic and explore the surrounding, unchartered lands. A city in the middle of nowhere is always in need of heroes...
