After finally getting round to taking a look at, not playing, 4E I am still undecided whether to take the plunge with this new edition.
Being a *sheepish look* veteran D&D player/DM (both proud and embarresed at the same time) and having shelled out for the 3.5 core rulebooks, as a returning player, and FRCS, Underdark, Waterdeep, Eberron Setting and Oriental Adventures the main reason is money and in this 'current financial climate' it looks like me and my fellow gamers will now be resigned to being musty old, out-of-date 3e/3.5e/AD&D Dark Sun players.
No doubt a lot of players, regardless of age, have taken the plunge to 4E and I say go for it! I will now spend some time searching these forums on 4E until:
1 - one of my kids asks for a glass of water and a bed time story 2 - my wife gets home from the Monster-in-Law :D (did you like what i did there?) 3 - I feel the urge to roll a d20, d8 etc 4 - my dad phones needing help with HIS computer/internet connection
So thanks for reading and enjoy your 4E experience!!
Ukplayerx's alter ego can be found propping up the bar in The Unicorn's Horn, Waterdeep.
My Icon Lego Elminster is off visiting Lego Sigil. He will return for the next Christmas Season!!
I'm a bit of a 4e fanboy myself. I was introdoced on 3e and never entirely got on with it due to my own personal tastes (not trashing the system, it's just not my cup of tea) and gave up on D&D until 4e brought me back into the fold (the fact that I like my roleplay mostly freeform helped here) with a vengeance. So I'm heavily biased.
You are wise to reserve judgement. When you do get the chance I recommend playing 4e as some elements can look a little stale on paper but work quite nicely in practice (like healing surges, I hated the idea at first but love it now).
Also remember that these forums represent a more vocal minority (as game forums usually do) so don't draw your conclusions from what you see hear alone. Though from your post I doubt you will so this post is rather pointless. Ah well.
After finally getting round to taking a look at, not playing, 4E I am still undecided whether to take the plunge with this new edition.
Being a *sheepish look* veteran D&D player/DM (both proud and embarresed at the same time) and having shelled out for the 3.5 core rulebooks, as a returning player, and FRCS, Underdark, Waterdeep, Eberron Setting and Oriental Adventures the main reason is money and in this 'current financial climate' it looks like me and my fellow gamers will now be resigned to being musty old, out-of-date 3e/3.5e/AD&D Dark Sun players.
No doubt a lot of players, regardless of age, have taken the plunge to 4E and I say go for it! I will now spend some time searching these forums on 4E until:
1 - one of my kids asks for a glass of water and a bed time story 2 - my wife gets home from the Monster-in-Law :D (did you like what i did there?) 3 - I feel the urge to roll a d20, d8 etc 4 - my dad phones needing help with HIS computer/internet connection
So thanks for reading and enjoy your 4E experience!!
Well if money is the problem you only need the players handbook. It has everything you need to play including magic items. If your DMing on the hand you might want to pick up the monster manual.
Or you could subscribe to DDI to get acess to a lot more information for a small amount of money
I played 2nd AD&D for the longest time. I tried 1 year of 3e when it first came out, then lasted for another 3 months after 3.5e, then was done with D&D until 4th came out. Now I love D&D so much that it is affecting how much I like other games ("lazy authors why didn't you see this hole in your ruleset?!")
You should keep in mind that this is a 4e forum so you are likely to get more yea than nay.
For my 2 copper pieces, I started D&D with BECMI in the early eighties and quickly converted to each new release as it arrived. I loved playing and DMing 1st and 2nd editions, but I felt D&D lost some of its identity with 3e (not a flame just IMO) and the game lost me for quite a long time.
4e is now my game of choice, the system feels more robust more DM friendly and less likely to break under it's own weight than previous editions. My players and I have tried to ressurect some of our old games from our AD&D days without any success. Maybe this is because 4e is the shiny new toy with lots of things to play with, but what ever the reason D&D regained my attention and now I play almost as regularly as I did back in the days of yore.
You definitely want to try D&D 4e. You'll probably like some of it and hate some of it. I know I did. For example, I like that the combat is even better for a battlemap than 3e, and the new class powers structure do amazing things for class balancing and spicing up some of the boring classes. The simplification in certain areas was annoying (as I like complexity). As time is passing, I'm also finding I don't like that games designed for 4e seem to end up more combat-centric, as that won't keep me playing it consistently until the next edition appears. I'm planning to DM more regularly to get some decent narratives going, hopefully that'll fix my concerns on that front.
My advice is, if you don't know a group that plays 4e near you, buy the Player's Guide (only), find a store that runs Living Forgotten Realms games, and sign up for some games. LFR tends to be more hacknslash than RP focused, but you'll have fun and get to see the system in play.
Edit: As a side note, I've played and DMd since 1984, starting simultaneously with D&D basic and AD&D, through 2e and 3e/3.5. I invariably switch to the new edition when it is released even though I own almost every generic and FR book I can get my hands on, and I've not yet gone back to an old edition. My willingness to update and start buying all over again may not make me the best comparison case for you.
FYI & AFAIK, there are Quickstart Rules for 4ed available on the front page of D&D.com, as well as Keep on the Shadowfell (level 1-3 adventure). So money is no barrier for at least 2 months of fun.
4ed Darkhawk
"You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight..."
My biggest problem is that I played very little of 3.5; I stopped playing D&D many years ago (before 2nd edition) and did other games like Star Wars d6. When I started playing D&D again, I played 3.5 and the Savage Tide game, which was a blast but I never felt like I was very knowledgable of the game like the other guys I played with.
When 4e came out, I really didn't have a whole lot to compare it to experience-wise, so I basically plunged into 4e rather enthusiastically. I suppose one could say that if I would have been more familiar with 3.5, maybe I would have a different take on 4e. But I didn't and I don't.
I like it a lot but like I said, you don't want to take too much of what I say for anything more than what it's worth.
I think, though, that you are wise in waiting for better financial times. Just get the PHB1, or better yet, borrow one and read it through so you can get an idea of what the game mechanics are like.
My biggest gripes with 4th Edition is lack of customizability. Here is what I mean: There is another game system called Champions. It seems very obvious to me that 4e was trying to do a Champion style game system, but there are some very important differences. In Champions there is no distinction between attacks. You have a ranged attack, and you have a melee attack. However, you do get a pool of points on which you can spend said points to customize your attack. You can add visual affects (smoke, fire, sparkles), damage types (ballistic, magic, psionic, elemental, etc.), or special properties (solid, liquid, incorporeal, etc.) Each property for your attack costs X amount of points. Unless you spend extra points, nearly everyone has the same basic attack; the only properties that change is the type of damage and how much. Very simple method that allows complete, creative control by the player.
Wizards, on the other hand, sort of followed that format with formulaic attacks (i.e. there's almost no difference difference between a Wizard with Magic Missile and a Ranger with a bow. They're both simply ranged attacks.) However, instead of letting the Player decide how the attack looks and what it does, Wizards worked out all the special attacks FOR the players, gave them a specific list, then assumed no one would ever want to deviate from that list; thereby removing creative control from the player.
4e is also very difficult for straight forward players like myself who have a problem with making associations (a disorder that can be frustrating to live with at best of times.) I very rarely played Wizards in 1st, 2nd, and 3.x editions because I'm horrible at deciding which spells I needed. I just liked playing the fighter. Big weapon, attack, splat. Simple.
In 4e, EVERYONE is the complicated wizard. Now you have to choose a bunch of different, premade special attacks, then look for "combos." I'm horrible at association, so 4e has proven to be the most frustrating edition of D&D ever made. I also tried and failed miserably at D&D Miniatures and Magic the Gathering. I'm obviously a minority in this section.
I think perhaps the most annoying feature of 4th Edition is the predetermined roles for classes. Every class has a specific role, and it doesn't deviate. Rogues are strikers, Clerics are leaders, and Wizards are controllers. That's it, end of discussion.
Ironically, a Fighter can't be a Striker and a Paladin can't be a Leader. For the past 4 editions of D&D, Fighters have equally been meat shields as well as damage dealers. Paladins lead by example, keeping a morally straying party in line. Just not in 4th Edition. (Incidentally, we've discovered in our gaming group that Bards make the best "fighter." Yeah, Bards.)
Also, 4e is completely centered around combat. Removal of non-combat skills also removed the ability to for skill-based characters instead of combat-based. Sometimes it was fun to make a Fighter with a high Int, picking 10 languages, putting ranks in Knowledge (insert whatever), etc. Break the mould, have some fun. Just not in 4th Edition.
I just have to say that our entire gaming group agree that 4th Edition would be infinitely better if Roles and Classes were completely separated, or, just completely remove the concept of Roles from the game.
I may have problems with the system, but you should play it for yourself. What doesn't work for me could be the best game ever for you.
Plus, there's nothing stopping me from not playing 4th Edition. It's not like 3rd and 2nd Edition have gone anywhere.
